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2.) Right now people playing soviet arty don’t build the 152 mm howitzer. No point. Just the B-4 and the 76mm, which are unlimited. Once you get 4-5 ZiS-76 (which are dirt cheap), you basically nuke everything. This is meant to encourage people to build those howitzers, which will still have that stun. Also, if USSR arty is the only doctrine that has to build its arty on the map, what do Canadian arty and SID do exactly? Also, lets not forget, the 76mm ZiS can just hide in the back of you base, which is what makes it infuriating, while the 152 mm actually has to be out on the map.
5.) I disagree, but fair enough.
6.) Perhaps, but at some point it will either remain annoying, or just have too little range. The best way to go about it is to make it cost something and be limited.
8.) The thing is, gammon bombs don’t have a reliable crit profile rn. I am hoping to give it one.
The strength in British arty is not in its barrage. You want a strong barrages, any of the doctrines you named above will work. The strength in brit arty is the frequency. Brit arty is the only doctrine that can launch barrages non-stop, one after another, until the end of the game. Want to clear gaps? Uncle barrage from the GPO.
Also, unlike all the other doctrines, you get those HQ batteries at tier 2. for 50 muni. that is the cost of 2 nades. less than a bren (70)
once they get set up, with all 4 batteries, and the muni dump, plus one muni cache, you can keep up your barrages until the end of time. these will still stun tanks, force infantry to retreat and move. It is the most annoying doctrine to play against in the game, once it gets set up. the early game is mediocre, like most brit docs, but the double Stuart call in lets you push fairly hard at tier 2.
US arty is versatile, but it also features massive cool-downs, a very weak tank game, and priests eat CP and muni.
Soviet artillery is broken and needs a nerf. their 76 ZiS is just too good for what it is and is spammable to all hell.
SS arty is… better, ill give you that. their flame mortar is annoying, as are their infiltration troops, and their arty is dirt cheap and requires no setup what-so ever. So yeah. this is not a good thing.
the arty in lowlands is impractical: the land mattress is good, but the sextons require far to much MP to use.
Victor target would crash the game with 216 guns. it would be a nuke. no. just no.
What I do agree with:
-Tommy Prince is way too weak.
-victor target is weak, ill give it that. it could be more accurate.
-I wish many of the arty upgrade did more (sound ranging microphones, over watch)
- overwatch should be applied from an individual batter, not from the GPO. I.E. you could have 1 battery over watching a certain sector, while everything else fires barrages.
- Ranging microphones should work on axis heavy mortars (the halftracks)
I like this idea, but tie it to the commander upgrade instead of the discount itself. Remember, US has to go through a number of unlocks to get to it’s discount. I do like this idea though. Well done.
OK. There are a lot of issues here. A lot of suggestions. I disagree with all of them. ( 😀 )
My issue with making Sherman V producible is: why build cromwell? There will be no reason. The sherman outperforms the cromwell every damn time. Unless you want to make a 75mm sherman a tier 4 tank… for some reason?
My issue with making tulip rockets kill infantry is this: Unlike most vehicles that can kill infantry squads in 1 shot, these rockets are good against tanks. Unlike the greyhound these rockets can be set off at long range. (You see a greyhound advance forward at your infantry, wtf do you think it is doing? ofc you know).
Now you might point at stuff like the ISU-152, the JT, the IS-2, the Brumbar, and to that I say: Those units are annoying to deal with, and we don’t need more of them. You might point to the inherent RNG of the rockets: yes! that is what we need to rely on! RNG!
Guards armor is a tricky doc, because the cromwell is not very strong against big cats. You know what is? The firefly. The rockets cost so much CP, because they allow a firefly to solo a panther, even if the panther shoots first. (the timing is tricky, b/c you need to pen the panther with 17 pounder, hit it with both rockets, before it reloads)
Make the firefly cheaper. It is easy, it is quick. Make the rockets cost lest muni to attach to tanks. If that dont work, we can come back to the drawing board.
If my opinion is still work anything, nick is completely right. Over time, it is less of a think that suppression immunity makes assault infantry good; suppression immunity, or strong AEA is what any SMG squad needs to be viable, period. If it has SMG’s, is an assault squad, and lacks suppression immunity, it is shit.
It is just not currently possible to advance on an entrenched LMG squad without losing your force to the LMG and suppression. It has gotten so bad that HMG teams just really are not useful. Why build the team when all of your regular squads have them, minus the movement penalty.
I agree with nick: all assault infantry should be immune to suppression for a limited amount of time. It should be built into all doctrines that rely on assault units. Smoke grenades could also do with a range buff, as the throwing range is pitiful right now. Assault squads should be able to plant smoke in front of LMG squads (who should not have grenades btw, to stop them from just being able to throw into smoke, and counter assault squads) and run up for win.
Maybe people would use more barbed wire then… but yeah.
I agree with most of your changes except for 2:
Stuart roof MG’s are not possible I believe, and the bren upgrade for the highlanders would make them too close to infantry sections. That said, they do need to have their stats buffed heavily.
A good point, however there is a risk of making infantry worthless if they get suppressed/cut down by vehicle MG’s and HE. Assault infantry, or any infantry, would not be capable of moving once any vehicles were in the area. While this works for a format of game like Wargame, where infantry have a role in towns, garrisoning buildings and making pushing through them a nightmare, this is not the case in CoH.
I agree SOME vehicle MG’s are a bit lackluster, and that HE shells are under-performing, but a careful balance must be struck.
I’m happy both of you agree. the reason I don’t personally like the KV-1 is it has poor utility: there are more mobile options for canister shells, and its armor tanks to get penned by panther and the tiger, while it has no chance of penetrating the big cats. It even struggles against panzer 4’s. It is simply outdated by the time the mod is taking place, and without utility it’s only role is as a tank vs tank unit, which it is poor at. It has a niche role in tier 3, yes, but in iron will the KV-1 tends to enter at tier 4.
Yeah, but you are either have to ignore history (not happening), bring in RNG (no thank you), or water down the difference between the various tanks, which removes variety.
I don’t think the issue is the vehicles themselves. I think its the rate they can be spammed, and the immobility of certain counters. A good pak 40 will eat most of the tanks in this game instantly, and it is the best AT gun in the mod, but it is so slow to move around the map.
Also, not only is the t-34-85 very good, it is also very spammable, whereas the panzer IV is much harder to field for how much weaker it is. The three allied tank docs (CW guards armored, US 4th armored division, USSR armored guards) need to be knocked down a couple of pegs, and their mass production upgrades should not be as good as they are. (I also believe the german docs with “super tanks” also should be looked at, namely panzerjager and wunder. ) These docs need to be able to be harassed in order to gimp their production, and this should be done to the fuel depot.
My suggestion: Route the upgrades through the fuel depot:
- Tank discounts do not touch the fuel cost… in fact maybe they should even increase it
- Fuel depot takes much longer to build (to punish you if it dies)
- Fuel depot allows you to use your discount effectively.
In effect, the tank spam docs will need 2 upgrades to get their tank spam going which does a couple of things:
- Delays the tank spam even more
- Allows players to harass a tank doc player, and rewards clever raid micro
- Can punish the tank doc player by fuel starving them if they don’t have a depot/it got taken out
One of my greatest criticisms of coh is that it is very hard to harass, and impossible to tech snipe due to base MG’s. I think its part of the reason that partisan/back-line combat docs struggle so much. I would like to see more docs have actual building they need to build on the map to get to their greatest potential, to allow you to harass instead of the massive stalemates and call-in dueling we see now.
Well, the point in the discord image stands. That said, I don’t think comparing autocannons with the quad 50 is an entirely fair comparison, so ill do it for you:
The sdkfz 251: has a set up period before it can fire, a slow turret rotation rate, so its balanced because of this
The luchs: Its a light tank, and requires tier 2 to produce (quad 50 can be rushed tier 1 iirc). It also costs a crap ton, is the weakest light tank in the game in terms of anti-vehicle damage, and has very slow turret rotation
The centaur: requires tier 3, can be one hit by a panzer 4… and anything heavier.
So the quad 50 should be compared to other half-tracks, as it lacks any of the other traits that is shared by the above vehicles. This means a buffed 50 cal:
-Shreds any vehicles in its weight class (and below), so anything other than a light tanks will die almost instantly
-Will shred any infantry, or pin them, which would allow it to cancel fausts (I believe the animation for faust firing gets canceled when a squad transitions from normal to suppressed?) and unlike russians and US, German AT grenades/AT rifle nades are comparatively rare.
-Will just become a very annoying and OP general purpose unit. Which is what I would argue it is now. So worse than that.
So in order to even THINK about buffing the quad 50, the following things must be true:
-It must be nerfed against other light vehicles, to stop it from killing the instantly-Needs a set up period, like the 251
-SMG assault infantry need some sort of passive resistance to suppression
-MG’s on other light vehicles need to be looked at: how is it that the MG of a sdkfz 221 is utterly useless?
That leads to another conversations, and I’m not sure changing all light vehicles is a good idea.
Ill give you a minor buff that allows suppression of AT teams if they try to rush you. IMO:
-An AT squad should never be able to run up to a tank from max range and kill it
-If a lone tank runs into an AT team in the open that is camoed, and that AT team break camo and charges it, that tank should take damage or die. This is called an ambush.
-If a tank with 1 squad of basic infantry runs into the above situation, then the AT team should be forced to retreat, if the squad has a BAR, Bren, or DP, it should die
-A tank or a group of tanks should never be able to just HE an AT gun from mad range before the AT gun kills at least one of them
-An AT gun should never be 1 hit by an HE shell, unless its of massive caliber or in red cover.
So long as those 5 things stay true, or become more true, you will get no opposition from me.
My personal suggestion is that give AT shells an AOE, like with KV-1 mazurin, for example, and give the shells low suppression value, so it will suppress with the shot. We need tanks to be able to prevent AT charges, to where supporting infantry can finish off the tanks, but we dont need the “HE tank gunline obliterates infantry everywhere” problem from spearhead to show its head here.
OK, I see your balance post, and while I see some good observations and ideas, I also see somethings, when taken into the larger meta, would be game destroying.
-You point out that CA feels very weak, and the incendiary barrage is too strong, which I agree with. Creeping barrage is also a nifty idea.
The rest… well…
-ISU buff. Not needed:
This tank can one hit anything it penetrates. If it does not, it inflicts stun. It has a MG upgrade that suppresses better than some weapon teams. It one-hits bunkers. It is part of doc that can inflict criticals like no ones business (Vet AT team, 76mm barrage, suppression immune penals) And you want to buff it? Why? The ISU is already one of the best tanks in the game, coming with support option that are quite frankly broken in strength already.
-AT rifle buff. A bad idea, sorry:
AT rifles are available on most soviet infantry. Like conscripts. You know, the default. Now giving every Russian infantry unit the ability to immobilize tanks, in what tends to be an instant, long range ability… Do you see the problem here? Russian AT tends to be weird, yes, but it is VERY strong in its current iteration across all 3 doctrines. (Some pointers: Soviet armor has SOVIET ARMOR. You get the best tanks in the game at a discount, you are fine. Shock guards has superior officers that can cast an aura that makes infantry around them SUPPRESSION IMMUNE. Infantry that can get bazookas, btw. And everything in soviet arty has AT use. But if you want specifics, the veteran AT rifle team gets a very similar ability to what you suggested)
-Infantry AT abilities: I get your frustration here. But you have to thing beyond a bit. Downgrading german troops from panzerfausts to grenades would be a buff most of the time: Panzerfausts cost munitions to buy AND use, while grenades skip the purchase cost, plus they are cheaper. In addition, the faust animation takes much longer to play, so you can cancel the faust if you back away fast enough. I feel like this might be some rage directed at wunderwaffe and Tank hunter doctrines? (I feel you there if that is the case), but giving infantry mass access to AT options is not the way to go. If tanks can advance up to infantry for fear of grenades (which are much harder to avoid b/c of how fast the animations play) then armor cant do its job. (Also tank hunter infantry might be getting nerfed next update, so hang in there.)
-KV-2
I sympathize with you here, but the KV-2 does not full-fill any extra roles that are not already covered in the doc. You have suppression immune shock troops with satchels for assault, and the IS-1 does fine on its own as a spearhead tank. Plus, the KV-2 is being saved for the last soviet doctrine, I believe.
-Cromwell at tier 2: Another idea I don’t like; I believe (and hope) you meant to suggest Cromwell at tier 3, (i.e. company command post unlock), because otherwise British would get the Cromwell at the same time Germans are fielding luchs light tanks and puma armored cars.
And while it may seem that some doctrines could maybe use a Cromwell for tier 3 (combined arms and UK lowland infantry) I assure, in the case of the latter, it is fine, and in the case of the former, AFAIK a restructuring is being planned.
In conclusion, I feel like you play allies more than axis (again, nothing wrong with that) and lot of these ideas, I feel, would ruin balance far more than you think. I agree there are some glaring issue, that will be addressed in time. For now, feel free to join the discord and DM me or anyone else if you are having trouble against some matchup. We will gladly assist you to the best of our ability. Good luck, have fun out there.
