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A common minor complaint I see in the case of the Panzergrenadier doctrine is that when you get the cheaper tanks unlock it’s actually a bit of a downgrade vs an upgrade compared to the Panzer IV H. (in that your turret traverse rate is basically halved) A few games ago I was playing US Armor and I noticed that the Sherman 76mm E8 had a max veterancy cap of level 4 vs veterancy cap level 3 on the regular Sherman 76mm. I was wondering if maybe this could be applied to the Panzer IV J in that the cap could be raised in order to</p>
a. Make it so getting an “upgrade” is ACTUALLY a upgrade.b. Match it with US Armors equivelent vehicle
c. The Panzer IV is not even that great compared to other options, Sherman 76 is objectively a better vehicle that you can get around the same time as a Panzer IV and the T34-85 instantly makes all German vehicles under 30 tonnes completely and utterly useless (which is a whole different complaint I have brought up several times) and raising the vet cap could make it at minimum stand a chance against these sorts of things.
So I don’t know I’d love a compromise, Panzer IV J should maybe get its vet cap upped to 4 or 5 considering it is the only tank division that has an “upgrade” to make its armour worse.
Edit: After reading this I realized how rambling and poorly put together this is which I attribute to caffeine. I had a physics test, okay? It’s not easy.
I got a B+
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Interesting idea.
just an FYI, there is no difference in armor values between the Ausf H and J.
yes it is a downgrade but it is also cheaper so you should be able to field more to compensate for slower turret traverse.
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I see no other historical, and factual way to decrease the price of the Panzer IV’s, while maintaining your list; The Panzer IV Ausf. J was a retrograde design, chosen to simplify production. The Turret’s electric motor was removed for ease of production, and due to the fact that war time materials were becoming more scarce towards the end. After December of 1944, they removed a return roller, and had the tell-tale 3 return rollers for a Panzer IV Ausf. J.
The J’s were the only Panzer IV’s to field mesh skirts, as it was more cost efficient in the terms of steel required to produce these skirts. Although the mesh skirts required a bit of time to be produced, they were cheaper.To maintain some historical accuracy, you could up the vet level, but you are now combining the extreme accuracy of the Panzer IV’s, the combined arms buff for them, and extra damage and accuracy due to that extra vet level. Yes, they may be fragile, but they are still very powerful; they are capable of taking on nearly all the allied tanks with their APCR (Jumbos and Churchhills may be the exception).
I feel that perhaps, they are fine as is? The J has decreased turret speed, but they have a significant price decrease from their H counterpart. Alongside the buff for extreme range and accuracy, they are quite deadly when engaging at a distance. We would have to see how they perform though.
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I agree with gamecks that panzer 4 J should be improved somehow like vet up and may be a free HE (cause the Panzer 4 F1 is not that realiable) and cost of HE round (upgrade and cost per active) is not so efficent and players likely never use it.
Cheap panzer 4 J is an important and specific point of medium tank focus of the doctrine.
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