Stuka Zu Fuss and friends…

I legitimately think artificial methods are necessary. If it was perfectly realistic, stuka would have much longer range and much less accuracy anyway, so I am not sure if barrage spread would even be artificial.

Points two and three would just be realistic, but it doesnt really matter if you already deleted the enemy army, which is what it does right now.

1st of all, the reload would not fix the problem for 2 reasons.
1. you just move back to spawn and reload, no danger here
2. You don’t have to reload the first time stuka comes into the battlefield and the barrage IS  COSTLY as hell, so you would not be firing any time soon anyway. Don’t get me wrong though… Barrage is costly, but it’s at least twice as worth it.

The main problem with stuka is not it’s damage, it’s the splash. Stuka barrage covers a massive area and even if you nerf damage by 50%, it would still wipe infantry (majority of your army if you’re Airborne/Infantry) super easy.

I think most people don’t get it, but let me say it like this:
“What’s the biggest difference between rocket artillery and the howitzers?”
Sounds pretty stupid does it not? Yet most people don’t get the answer.
The answer is “how much time does it take to fire the whole barrage.”

Let’s look at the example. If we look at how much stuka kills, we can compare it to B4.
Firing 6 shells with B4 or any other howitzer will take ~1 minute… And for stuka? ~4 seconds. That’s the main issue.
If b4 shot 6 shells at once would it be OP? Cause that’s stuka right now… But the rabbit hole goes even deeper.

Stuka is one of a kind even for artillery! It’s the only artillery piece that can fire all the shells/rockets at once in the style of creeping barrage! The main difference that instead of a big area, it can cover 6 smaller areas!
Let’s say there are targets in area A, area B and area C (look at the pictures below).

Normal artillery can attack 1 area. So let’s say it hits area C. 1 shell drops. It may kill something, but if it does not, you retreat everything from area C and the rest is untouched (area A and area B are safe)…
Now if we look at stuka… It can drop 2 massive rockets on each area, clearing ALL the units inside of the area and if something survives it, it will retreat. In this scenario you can say that stuka has 3 times as much killing power because it can use creeping barrage on all 3 areas at the same time.
Oh yeah… Creeping barrage on howitzers… Let’s keep it simple… Area 3 will get the initial blast from the creeping barrage, but area B and area A still have time to retreat or simply move, before creeping barrage hits them… Stuka hits all 3 at once.

In short. The main problem with stuka is:
A) it’s rocket arty, so it shoots all of the rockets at the same time… Hits bigger area AT ONCE leaving only corpses.
B) Splash.
^ ^ ^  ^ ^
This is the main issue. The main problem with stuka is that it has massive splash. I think it’s the 2nd biggest splash in game (right after B4). Imagine shooting 6x B4s at once…

What would really fix the stuka problem is reducing it’s splash, damage is fine, it should kill tanks/buildings etc., but it covers WAY TOO MUCH AREA. Don’t balance it around how much splash 1 rocket has, it shoots 6 at the same time! Balance it around how much splash 6 rockets have combined.

This is stuka area of effect in 5 seconds:

This is typical howitzer area of effect AFTER 1 MINUTE:

Non ammo cost/reload can make it balanced. Cause the stuka will wipe way much than enemy pay for his troops anyway.

Testing on the video:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/218183761 (same link as in the comment below)

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.

Sorry for the long post, I’ve said the same thing a lot, but it’s just so people can understand what’s the real problem.

I think the main problem its BIG rockets, way too powerful, if you lucky enough, you can clear all enemy front line units in one savlo, nerf the power of rockets a little bit maybe just fine.

I like the manual reload idea, but the AI will handle it ?

Death explosion would be nice one, this will make player think twice before move it.

How about setup time? just like the Flak Halftruck, stop and stay still about 5~10 seconds for fire prepairing, or maybe make a setup button to make it need to be manually setup before fire rockets, the question also is: Will the AI handle this ?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by qinzuoqiu.

The manual setup would be great…. Thinking of Starbuck making a cool stationary stuka (like ambulance or Faust truck)

I could even imagine to get rid of the stuka truck and replace it with a truck which builds up a station with the wurfrahmen placed on the ground. That would mean it takes time to set up and also to pack together the stuff to get moving again.

Does someone have information about the different types of rockets for the wurfrahmen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28/32_cm_Nebelwerfer_41

Lorarius, wurfhrammen could shoot either TNT or “fire” rounds. That are already in the game.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.

I think the problem is coming from the damage/AOE model.

1.A shell direct drop on my IS-2 and IS-2 got destroyed? Okay.
2.Two shell drop 10 meters away from my sherman and sherman got destroyed? not a good feeling.
3.One shell drop 20 meters away from my inf and inf got wiped out? No way

@ More Juliet The main problem is the extreme damage of this weapons. I reconstructed the damage of all arty taking in consideration historical facts. But like snipers this weapon needs to be nerf for gameplay resons.

I think as a first step we should give it CP activation in the tech tree. I can modify a bit the actual one to bundle to it.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/218183761
Me and ragnar tested stuka a bit
Also calliope You can listen to our thoughts and see what both arty pieces do
Feel free skip the first 10 minutes

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Damian.

What doctrines (OKH or OKW) have access to the stuka? Newb here