02/09/2019 at 4:59 am #10049
Wondering if there is a case to have the KV1 and KV8 heavy tanks delayed in their deployment?
As it stands, I’ve seen a number of games (on both sides) where the early KV is quite dangerous. A smart player can have it deployed soon after hitting Tier 3 as the SOV. This generally leaves the Germans very exposed. Generally they have only just hit Tier 3 and are mostly forced to rely on infantry based AT or lucky mines. This is tough since both tanks are designed to kill inf (even KV1 with the splinter shot).
The best counter I’ve seen so far has been to rush the defense doctrine panzer jager team and get a salvo, or use tank hunters Sepp call in to rush 2 stugs to counter. This, at best, gets there slightly after the KV but works. Tank hunter panzerfaust/volksturm spam can also work, but is dependent on an aggressive KV player.
The situation is worse if the Axis is already losing a bit. In my last game (3v3) we had both KV8 and KV1 hitting us right as one SS tier 3 truck was deploying and enough had just set up.
I’m wondering if increasing the manpower requirements a bit, or perhaps adding a small fuel cost, could delay the deployment and allow for a counter? Making it buildable and delaying the deployment by a min or two would work too.
- This topic was modified 9 months ago by Aydin.
05/09/2019 at 9:36 pm #10069123nickParticipant
tiering times for wehr and russia should be about the same, and costs would be too. assuming equal fuel income, you should both be getting tanks at around the same time. the only thing that might be really worrying is the KV-8, but it cant outrange panzershreks so just get panzershreks.
08/09/2019 at 12:18 am #10077
The problem is the KV1 doesn’t need fuel to deploy, and has no build time. So it can deploy before I can deploy Panzer 4, and that’s also assuming I skip any tier 2 light vehicle too.
14/09/2019 at 12:42 am #10105BWChiefParticipant
I believe that the answer to this will come in time, as I know its a problem that has been brought up. To be honest, I personally like some of the no-fuel cost call ins, because they can be wonderfully combined with your other fuel-requiring units
Wehrmacht mechanized for example, call in recon squad, and roll in flame halftrack and pioneres with flamethrowers. Pioneres can buff the recon element and give you an advantage, or can be used in combo with Panzer IV’s for a cheaper buff unit, it works if your super low on fuel, and can’t call out the costly Panzergrenadiers in halftracks.
I do get what your going at though, and perhaps it would be better if big “Game changing” call in’s like the King Tiger, Tiger Ace, etc had fuel costs tagged on. As for now, they don’t and I feel that in the future, they will get a fuel cost, but in the meantime, the remaining doctrines are the priority, most likely. The mod has been in development for so long, and I am sure that getting the doctrines done is the biggest priority, considering the following the mod has.
As for countering the KV’s, your on the right path, use all your AT might, Panzerfausts and perhaps AT guns are your best bet. AT guns are cheap tank alternatives (unless your Wehrmacht mechanized), just slower and weaker to infantry.
Honestly, try and bait them into a trap, let them “invade” your lines, and cut the KV off from reinforcements. Lightly guard a spot, and if the enemy doesn’t bum rush it with everything, keep your bulk of the units a little ways off, this way when they punch through the line, you can surround it, cut the infantry support down, and Panzerfaust it as it tries to run.
14/09/2019 at 3:59 am #10107
Yeah, I agree that some of the manpower only call ins are fun. They can also be a good way for a player who is losing (and often doesn’t have fuel) to do a past counter attack.
Certainly I’ve seen the Tiger call ins work that way.
Part of what makes the Tiger (free wiligne) or KT less dangerous is that’s they’re guarded beyond many CP points, and need a heavy panzer unlock. It’s very unlikely you can bring them in early game.
Conversely, the KV is easy to unlock and can consistently be a Tier 3 rush. So even just moving it further down the CP tree so it unlocks a bit later would work IMO.
Or to put it another way: for tank hunters, my preferred counter is the Sepp Brander call in. In order to unlock it at the same time, I have to follow a strict order: 2 panzerfaust (light AT) -> Stug -> SB.
I’d love to experiment with the improved AT mines or Volksturm, but against a player determined to hit the early KV1 I always deploy late.
In big mixed multi its less of an issue, but if I’m doing 2v2+, I’ve found I’m basically limited to only TH, Defence, FW to have reliable defence vs it. (granted haven’t tried PG recently). Luft has been very risky, but can be done in super urban maps.
Tactically you are 100% right though. My newer successes other than the SB call in have been laying Teller mines and doing a light screen defence. Try to bait it into a mine within my lines then ambush.
I find this strat works well if I’m winning or it’s an even game, especially urban. If I’m already losing, it’s hard to find extra room to pull back in, and the SOV player is less incentived to attack without serious support.
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