Home Forums General Discussion Balance Discussion A new way to play Wikinger:

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    • #6823
      Olhausen
      Keymaster

      Hi community and fellows team mates:

      I open this thread to discuss and talk about a new way to play our Wikinger mod. I am a fan of the historical facts I really want to reflect some elements in the mod. Wikinger in the actual state is good in my eyes but has a few failures that I want to correct. I will try to mantain the post simple and schematic as possible to not bored you with wall of txts.

      Then here we go, basically the big failure in Wikinger is the way the players use his tanks. Most of the expericence players just save resources to do a fast tech up and go ahead for big cats. This happens in all the factions. Why I am going to lose fuel and mp on a Pz IV if I can get a Tiger or a Panther who gives me a big advantage over the other player. Why I am going to build a cromwell when I can build a churchill or a comet. Is the same history in all the factions on the mod. Then, when the player get access to those vehicles, and lose one of them, basically after lose one of them say, “who cares, I will build another one”. At the end during a game is rare to see a medium tank when the historical reallity was far away of this.

      Same thing happens with super elite infantry units: is rare again to see basic troops, because the experience player again knows he need to focus on those super elite troops to win a difficult game vs other experience players. Is a vicious circle of no end.

      “Players mind”

      I lose my tiger dam !–> I dont care I build another one –> Oh ! again I lose my tiger dam! –> I dont care I build another one –> and so on.

      Is the same for super elite infantry units specially level 5 ones.

      My first aproach to fix this problem was around the resources. To do the game more tactical, I removed in the beta version the ammo and fuel from normal points. This way those resources will became more rare and this should help to do three things:

      a. Limit the artillery and planes in game reducing the income of ammo

      b. Limit the tanks (specially heavies) and I gave special bonus to tank doctrines with the fuel dump

      c. Force the players to build fuel/ammo caches. Nobody build them in live version of the mod because is not necesary. Why ? because those elements are really easy to get from normal points and most of the time players dont know what to do with them.

      I was thinking yesterday in another aproach:

      “Why dont limit the heavy tanks and super elite infantry to a certain number”

      Based on my pvp experience I think I can estimate a number for some of them. Basically, the idea is to force the player to be careful in the use of those units because they are NOT forever and if they lose them many times then he will be not able to get more of them.

      I dont want to do all units limited in game, just the most elite ones and see whats happens. A short list to think about it:

      Tanks: Panther/Tiger/King Tiger/Elefant/Jagdtiger/Churchill croco/Churchill/IS-2/ISU-152&122/Pershing and maybe comet and Firefly.

      Infantry: all level 5 like shock troops/falls regiment 6/stobtruppen/ranger infiltration

      Then a convination of all these elements used in the correct way could help us to have a perfect convination:

      a. Do the normal points only MP and force the players to do ammo & fuel caches upgrades and stop the abuse of those elements during the game. This also will help to stop the arty fest and plane fest.

      b. Reduce again the cost of the call ins as a plus, taking in mind they are not forever. They could remain as MP only if necesary.

      c. Restric the heavy cats to a certain number “x” taking in consideration historical facts and gameplay.

      d. Restric the super elite infantry to a certain number “x” to stop the abuse on them too, and give more chance to the doctrines who dont have elements to fight them back.

      Those changes are not for this patch but I really want to know what the community and my team mates think about it.

      Regards, Olhausen

      • This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Olhausen.
      • This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Olhausen.
      • This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Olhausen.
      • This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Olhausen.
      • This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Olhausen.
    • #6830
      Lorarius
      Keymaster

      similar minds….
      I wasn’t aware that would be possible to mod a limit on those.

      But if we wanna see some more mediums and light vehicles, there should be a solution for the very effective infantry at teams. One reason why I don’t like to use mediums is their high vulnerability to infantry at weapons.

      Anyone got a solution for that? Limit them to two at teams on the battlefield per player? Or even just 1?

    • #6834
      Ordo
      Participant

      yes yes yes yeeeees

    • #6847
      Olhausen
      Keymaster

      Hi guys:

      Today I was working, developing a new way to restrict the number of buildable units. This will also works for call in too.

      The system will works around the follow:

      a. The number heavy vehicles will be limited. The number of them will be also related to the kind of doctrine. If the doctrine is a tank doctrine then this doctrine will have a plus bonus in his reserves. As an example, Tank hunter doctrine will have more reserves of panthers than Luftwaffe.

      b. The number of super elite infantry will be limited too. This limit will affect as a first step to vet 5 units likes shock troops

      c. Hero units like Abrams, Michael Wittman will be limited to one time. The player will be able to build tanks from his reservers but the hero will be limited to one.

      d. Hero units will receive a boost to make a different to the buildable ones.

      e. Airstrikes system: to support the modding I will use the same system for the airstrikes like I did with the artillery system. Specific units will be required to call in airstrikes. This way the player will be not able to perform click and destruction.

      f. Move the AT squads to the tanks tier to protect the medium tanks phase.

      Here again the units in my sight:

      Tanks: Panther/Tiger/King Tiger/Elefant/Jagdtiger/Brummbar/Churchill croco/Churchill/Comet/Firefly/IS-2/ISU-152&122/KV-2/Pershing/

      Infantry: all level 5 like shock troops/falls regiment 6/stobtruppen/ranger infiltration

      “The idea is to give a rasonable number of them, but not INFINITE”

      Feel free to cast your oppinions here.

       

    • #7484
      Aydin
      Participant

      Not sure if this is a dead thread, but I really like this idea.

      Right now with the Germans I rarely build more than 1 or 2 panzer/stug IVs past the mid game. I’m deathly afraid of the IS2/152, and basically have to prepare my entire end game for something that can take them on.

      With US armor it’s slightly different, I find 50% of games are “fast” enough where the opposition is too pressured by Sherman spam and can’t bring out the heaviest vehicles.

    • #7491
      Olhausen
      Keymaster

      Hi, it is not dead, basically I still working in some elements

      a. The elite infantry is now more limited, cost more and have more reload times and build times.

      b. The airstrike system will be totally reworked for the next patch. British doctrines are using the new system with observers and SS and AEF will have the same mechanics.

      c. AT squad are now on the last tier to allow light vehicles tactics

      But I did not change the nodes income for now.

    • #7817
      TankDoc_1985
      Participant

      “b. The airstrike system will be totally reworked for the next patch. British doctrines are using the new system with observers and SS and AEF will have the same mechanics.”

      Could you put the observator trucks and SAS airstrike coordinator squad to the third line on the unit selection list? I mean the top right corner where the units are listed. It is not easy to find these units to call in stuff in the mass of the other units, so it would be better to separate them and put them where the usa rangers mortar pit or the usa arty 88 gun is, so it can be selected more easily.

    • #7823
      Olhausen
      Keymaster

      Thanks for the advice, lets me see what we can do.

    • #7841
      Sun1praxis
      Participant

      If you can make this happen go ahead and do it! I think german players shouldnt be allowed to build 2 king tigers in one game but play more carefully with it. Anyway, games shouldnt last that long either! I think this is so interesting Olhausen! These elite units (armored or no) being irreplaceable would be very precious therefore subject to tactics and sometimes could be game winning ones.

      And yes airstrikes need the artillery system

    • #12115
      Lutzow
      Participant

      Yes, I support your proposition! Countless numbers of the big guns does get unrealistic…

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