Home › Forums › Welcome › Basic Training › When to use Stug?
- This topic has 8 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 2 months ago by Death_Kitty.
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15/10/2017 at 6:46 pm #4630AydinParticipant
Curious when you guys pick to build Stug IV over a Panzer IV?
I used to be a big fan of stugs (and still am with tank hunters), but now that the price difference is practically 0 I almost never go for Stugs. I think the Panzer 4 is 70 fuel vs 75 for the Stug, so in some ways it’s cheaper despite having a turret.
When do you go for a stug over panzer?
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16/10/2017 at 1:17 pm #4657Death_KittyModerator
generally when my opponent is being annoying and sticks units in buildings, i’ll build a stug or even the stubby gun panzer 4 to clear the building. lets me avoid an HE upgrade on a panzer IV. Stug is more survivable and better against tanks than stubby panzer, so yeah.
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16/10/2017 at 4:12 pm #4658AydinParticipant
What about the long barrelled version? I’m thinking about which should be my main battle tank going into mid/late game (I.e pre panther etc)
In general does the Stug have better armour than a Panzer4?
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16/10/2017 at 10:57 pm #4662Death_KittyModerator
Depends what your problem is: If you need to counter Sherman/Cromwell quickly, then the panzer IV is your best bet (or pak40 if you have it close, or panzerjager if they are not being suppressed before they can fire), but if you need to counter an opponent who is using buildings like the piece of human garbage he is, you want the stubby panzer. If you want something in between, get the Stug. The Stug is harder to kill than the panzer, (lower profile), can do better against tanks than stubby panzer, and by getting it you can skip the HE shell upgrade, but no turret. Unless you opponent has taken building on your half of the map, and you are being denied of resources, or your opponent start pushing with tanks, you can usually hold off until your first panther/tiger comes onto the field. pak 40 helps a lot for denying the first Sherman until the big cat comes out. Generally think of the midgame as being very static and the panzer IV, and stug as supplements to the big cats in late game.
Midgame is more for digging in along the established front line, when you are going to be playing “chess” against you opponents: incessantly probing their defenses (usually with infantry) while resisting their attempts to do the same, while hoarding resources for your big unlocks and heavy units.
Now you can build the lighter tanks to create an early breakthrough, but against US wolverines/ bazookas which come pretty early, soviet antitank everything, and British emplacements, sustaining an advance will be difficult without heavy tanks- you need the sheer tankiness.
I’d shamefully self advertise my guides if you have not read them already, but a few are a bit out of date pending some issues I’m having with posting, so if you do choose the read them, keep them in mind.
Hope that helped… if not, keep asking and I keep telling you what I know.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Death_Kitty.
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17/10/2017 at 4:34 am #4666AydinParticipant
Ha, I’m a big fan of your guides! Have some questions for them as well, I’m a bit more open ended here but trying to give my broad approach to see what could be wrong.
- For Stug IV: Did not know that the low profile was taken into account. That’s a potential game changer for me, as traditionally I’ve liked having a tank that is all purpose (i.e. can support vs infantry/buildings, but still has firepower to kill tanks) but can continue to live late game when the heavies come out.
- If you had to give me a rough timeline, when do we switch into mid and then late game? Your luftwaffe guide says the Goring call in is a great switch to late game, but it is very rare for me to have 1800 manpower floating around. Just replenishing losses keeps a steady burn on MP. The Wunderwaffe suggests the Tiger tank, which is what I typically use. Gunning for the King Tiger is fun, but the 2000mp is very hard (even if just replenishing infantry losses). Plus, going for KT means I’ll definitely have ‘wasted’ (or not used) fuel stores of 350+.
- Related to #2, I’d like your thoughts on my normal build out. typically I go a bit infantry heavy early game (especially Waffen, either Luft. or WW). 2 SS Grenadiers, 2 Freweiligen/Luft. Pioneers. Use this to expand and put early pressure. Will generally make 1-2 MGs later on (42 if I can wait for it as WW, otherwise rushed 34). ‘Early mid’ game for lack of a better term (think 1st/2nd truck) I’ll pivot and get some mix of Falsch/Gebirgs/Leig arty as Luft. or the Jaeger/mortar squad as WW. Typically it’s still infantry battles here (occasional panzerfaust for a half track), will use the elites or the arty to hit MG emplacements. Later on will build a Panzerjager squad to counter an early tank rush (you mentioned Pak 40s, but I tend to struggle using a Pak 40 offensively. Plus the Jaegers can still penetrate IS-2 late game). My mid/late game has historically started when I build my first Panzer IV. Occasionally (if no tanks, or my team-mates are covering more AT) I will go straight to a Tiger/Panther (as you can tell, on a ‘good’ game/map I can float a lot of fuel)
- Related to this last point, when do you pick a panther over a tiger? Tiger costs similar manpower and less fuel. I rarely need the superior speed the Panther offers. Occasionally will go for it with the sniper add on.
I know this is broad, but curious on if I’m missing something with my approach. Recently with the Waffen I find it easy to horde fuel which makes me wonder if I’m unbalanced. With Wehr I’m more balanced as there’s more excuses to use fuel other than for tanks, plus the general infantry are less powerful.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Aydin.
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17/10/2017 at 12:40 pm #4668Death_KittyModerator
Well I’ll do my best to answer some of you questions:
1.) Do not quote me on this but I think the StuG has lower received accuracy from tank shot, but panzer IV is still a better early tank killer. Like, a sherman E8/ t34-85 will eat a stug alive, so keep that in mind. not a replacement for heavier tanks. Playing Germans gives you stronger units, but also less of them, allies have more tanks than, that is why you want superior units early on. The panzer IV was a tank. The StuG is an assault gun. so basically: big cat ASAP use it to tank for panzer/stug.
2.) I think it was Eisenhower that said: “the plan is everything before the battle, but worthless once it starts…” (Something like that), the same applies to my guides. (my luft guide is in sore need of an update though. probably that one most out of all my guides.) Late game roughly starts when the “signature” units and options start coming out, with someone breaking through after that. (i.e. panzer division getting out a tiger, airborne starting to call in heavier airstrikes, Armor doc transitioning into Sherman spam, luft going into panthers). If you make a breakthrough that succeeds in capturing and holding resource sectors, that also triggers endgame due to a resource imbalance… the line between the stages of the game are a bit grey tbh. (endgame can take awhile)
3.) Sounds Good. The only thing I would suggest is keeping it down to 3 squads in the beginning for manpower reasons, but on larger maps 4 might be something ill have to try. In the midgame, If you find yourself floating on fuel (as you will with luft. It uses more munitions than fuel that why you can dispatch munitions) try building some mid-game light vehicles: ambulance is a good one, maybe a luchs if you need some mobile suppression, ostwind for AA. Don’t worry some much about spending fuel. if you float its ok. worry more about your manpower. with an infantry heavy doctrine its hard to transition to tanks b/c the infantry will take casualties, but goring does have 2 panzer G’s which are really good as opposed to the D’s you can build. If You need heavy armor sooner by all means buy a D.
4.) Honestly, I always go Tiger first, because tiger can do more than a panther: more armor, bigger gun. Speed is not really vital here. Panther is more upgradeable, so one you get your tigers, panther is a good choice.
hope that helped, keep asking!
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17/10/2017 at 4:19 pm #4676mor_julietParticipant
Stug-III ausf.G has better frontal armor than all Pz-IV variation, so it can take sherman 75mm and T34/76 easily. I’ll recommend using Stug-III in tanks combat, while Pz-IV is good in general purpose.
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17/10/2017 at 11:43 pm #4682AydinParticipant
- Other than the HE round, does the Panzer IV vs Stug have any offensive differences? They use the same KwK L/48 gun + one MG, right? [I almost always go for a tank commander as my upgrade, would you suggest otherwise?] Obviously getting orientation is important but I think I handle that
- how often do you use the HE round? I’ve almost never used it but sounds like I should!
- So 2 Grenadiers + 1 ‘chaff’? And then supplement with elites/MGs? (This also implies WW goes more tanks earlier)
- Other than the HE round, does the Panzer IV vs Stug have any offensive differences? They use the same KwK L/48 gun + one MG, right? [I almost always go for a tank commander as my upgrade, would you suggest otherwise?] Obviously getting orientation is important but I think I handle that
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18/10/2017 at 1:36 am #4683Death_KittyModerator
1.) panzer has a turret and extra machinegun but cost more, stug is cheaper. Use HE when targeting buildings and infantry in the open.
3.) yup. as for WW getting more tanks not really: you spend a lot of manpower on your 502nd jagers. but yes, it is the tiger rush doc. Its called panzer division for a reason.
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