The Soviet Union

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    • #14727
      JgF Chaosfl
      Participant

      The Soviet Union

      The Russian faction in Wiking’s mod has a few problems that I would like to address, but I will say that almost all of the doctrines are very solid and just need some fine tuning. I have been playing almost exclusively the Soviet Union for 3-4 months, so I hope this helps improve the mod.

      The infantry

      The weakest and worst infantry in the mod.

      The Soviet infantry are perceived to be inferior to all German units, e.g. the Volksgrenadiere. The Iron Will Doctrine is more Soviet than the Soviet Union and has even better infantry. With the SS-East you get an Opel Blitz for 270 mp and infantry that is better than Soviet infantry.I think adding 1 extra soldier would make it extremely better and also reduce the cost from 270mp to 260mp

       

      PTRS/Anti tank

      I don’t know what happened to the PTRS, but it is very bad. I heard that the PTRS used to be good. I think the PTRS should be good to stun a crew or break chains. But this rarely happens and does very little damage. The PTRS should be buffed.

      • More damage should 3-5 hit a Kübelwagen not 12 hit it
      • medium Tanks should be slightly more Stuned/Broken chains

      Plus the PTRS from the assault pack should be replaced with an anti tank grenade.

       

      KV-1 and the T-34/76

      The KV-1 and T-34/76 just need a higher pen rate, but the rest is fine

       

      The Russain Guard doctrine

      It is one of the worst doctrines in the mod.

      The problem with the doctrine is that the red guards are very hard to get, especially in the endgame. I find the system of getting red guard units interesting, but it needs some changes.

      • If you choose the Red Guard doctrine you get better starting Infantry and the officer squad gives all infantry units 25% more exp.
      • The KV-1 and KV-8 should be unlocked at the beginning and should be replaced with replacement depot from the US Inf doctrine.

      I think that would help a lot. The other problem is that you like to buy upgrades for your infantry e.g. DP Machine Gun, SVT etc.. I think if you have bought soldier upgrades it should not cost ammo for Red Guard status. Plus I don’t understand why the Red guard Anti tank team is locked at one. I would increase to 2.

      The real problem

      I’ve played with a lot of people in the last few months and when I’ve asked which doctrine I should play, most of the time I’ve been asked: “Do you want to suffer?”

      When I answered yes, it was always: “Guards doctrine”.

      All the improvements I suggested above do not solve the problem in the doctrine itself but simply try to put a weak band-aid on it.

      I had always heard the wish that the Red Guards should be buildable from the Build Menu. But the real problem with the doctrine is that it doesn’t know what it should be. I don’t really have a solution to this problem, but I and others feel that this doctrine needs a rework and a completely different concept. I’m not saying that everything is bad, but the concept of how the doctrine works. I hope the devs will think about what this doctrine wants to be. I think it is a shame that the Soviets are neglected. I have seen what great rework the whole team has done, for example the Airborne or the US Tanks, I wish this would also happen with the Guard doctrine.

      Other Doctrines

      I think the rest of the doctrines are quite good, they just need a bit of polishing.

      Artillery
      I think the ammunition drop should be replaced with the ammo dump because the doctrine is too loaded between ammunition and oil.

      Partisans
      I think that the Partisans need better starter infantry, it doesn’t need a big change, just a bit more health points, better aim etc.

      Conclusion

      I think that the soviet faction is not bad, it just needs some fine tuning compared to the British. But I would like to say that I am glad that the mod exists and I have had many great and heated battles. I wanted to thank the devs for that and hope that all the factions get the finishing touches. Btw one of my favorite doctrines are Sovjet Tanks

      thanks for reading!

      • This topic was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by JgF Chaosfl.
      • This topic was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by JgF Chaosfl.
    • #14730
      BWChief
      Participant

      Lets start in a straight line down the list
      1. Soviet infantry
      Soviet infantry are mainly conscripts due to a lack of material and information on Soviet infantry formations, units, and their training. Conscripted soldiers were used en-mass, as the Soviets sustained heavy losses in their defense against the Germans, and in their offenses into German territory. Conscripts are generally not well trained, and as such, their lack of training and skill is shown.
      Sources on the varying Russian infantry units, and their training would be helpful if you’d like to help improve the selection of infantry.

      2. PTRS
      The PTRS used to be a powerful anti light-vehicle weapon, generally taking about 2 shots for a Kübelwagen and roughly 3-4 for a SdKfz. 222. It received a nerf after some complaints were lodged about its “extreme power” and they received a heavy damage penalty, but instead received a boost in crits on vehicles. I won’t deny that they seem woefully underpowered, for anti-tank rifles, they take a oddly lengthy time on smaller things than tanks. Infantry with PTRS’s were given basic AT grenades, as the PTRS is currently set up to slow down, or snare a vehicle for AT grenades. PTRS teams have FREE-TO-USE AT grenades to compensate for the lack of punch their 14.5mm AT rifles have. I can’t help but agree that they are quite underwhelming, but we will have to live with them for the time being, till a change is made.

      3.KV-1’s, and T-34’s
      I understand the frustration with this, and would inclined to agree. The values are a little low for a F-34 or ZiS-5 gun. It is up to the devs to change it, should they desire. I see no harm in raising the penetration to 83mm, as the penetration would then be more effective against Panzer IV’s, StuG’s, and the like. You would still need 2 T-34’s for every 1 Panzer IV though, as the reload rates are quite..slow. The reload is not going to change though, as thats the average reload of a T-34/76.

       

      4. Guards doctrine
      Guards doctrine has some of the best infantry in the soviet unit line up. Stormgroup could probably receive a level of Vet with the unlocking of their advanced equipment, but they are by far some of the best infantry the soviets have. Full PPSH load out, Guardsmen HP and stats (greater than conscripts), Combat officer who can suppression break them, and himself, and powerful support options (Mainly your air support). KV-1 and KV-8 are locked since the doctrine has 75mm Shermans to support infantry, which do better than T-34’s against other tanks, and infantry (increased fire rate due to reload speed, and overall increased accuracy while on the move due to stabilizer) and KV-1’s, while not a direct upgrade in terms of Anti-tank work, are an upgrade in terms of infantry support tanks; Shrapnel shell, increased armor, and heavy crush for obstacles. The KV-8 really needs to have a CP lock, as that moving piece of fire-spewing-hell can destroy a lot of hopes, dreams, and acreage with its flamethrower. Sure, its 45mm gun sucks, and won’t do a lot to tanks, but its really meant for LV’s; its not an anti-tank piece, its an anti-infantry based tank.
      It has been contested about the infantry upgrades not carrying over, but I don’t think they can transfer over, as you can get a load of options, and have varying upgrades the can’t carry over (PTRS mainly). You get full SVT’s now, as that was a change done to alleviate the munitions sink a little.

      Guards Rifle AT Tank hunters(4 man squad)
      – Capped at 1
      – loadout is x 2 MP-40, x2 bazookas, grenade and smoke grenade
      – Captured Panzerfaust 60 (requires “extra equip” tech tree unlock)
      – Can upgrade “Veteran Sergeant”
      – Gives extra squad member with STG-44
      – Gives squad a 3rd bazooka
      – Cost is 80 mun
      This is why its capped at one; You have a better AT team, that can now effectively engage armor with their ranged weapons. They have 2 MP40’s, which helps them out up close against infantry, smokes to help them move up, or cover a section of LOS to provide cover, their Panzerfaust 60 can penetration the heaviest of tanks, and the veteran sergeant upgrade allows them to one tap most T3 tanks. The Bazookas are close to the best AT weapon, as they travel relatively quick, and deal a good amount of damage (not to mention its a HEAT weapon, so it loses no penetration over distance, and does a decent amount of damage). Soviet Guards are a direct upgrade to the conscripts, and with the DP or rifle grenades, aren’t hard to obtain, unless you are constantly sending them into battle without fully recovering from before.

      The chances of the soviets getting a total overhaul is quite small, as they are one of the more recently completed factions. The doctrine has its own shortcomings, but that is part of the design. You get some of the most (inaccurate, and costly) devastating rocket artillery (short of a massive Katy rack build spree by Partisans) to be fielded by a faction (barring the Calliope, but thats pretty damned accurate).

      Arty getting a dump is possible, but most likely won’t, as the cool down timer keeps you waiting and carefully playing a juggling game of resources, to ensure you don’t waste all your munitions destroying the land with a barrage of artillery fire.

      Partisans have quite fragile and poor infantry for a reason; You have Advanced Evasive Action. You can literally camouflage and move with good speed, and your infantry gets quite strong upgrades: Partisans get the ZB LMG, the “Original Bren”, which makes them quite deadly, and they can easily screw up any infantry unit with that lazer beam of an LMG. Your Red army Partisans are well set, with their loadout being not as oppressive as when they came out (They had to be nerfed, and have their AT option swapped around, and the PPSH’s tech locked, since it turned into an infantry melt fest when they uncamo’d infront of infantry).

      Honestly, in comparison to the British, the Brits need the rework rather than the Soviets. The British faction is one of the oldest factions to be done in the mod, and could use an update to bring them up to speed with the newer factions (Soviets and Wehrmacht).

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by BWChief.
    • #14732
      JgF Chaosfl
      Participant

      Your first point about your infantry, I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to tell me. Is my point bad or a good idea because it supports the conscript role?

      Your second point with the PTRS I agree with you to some extent, but I think that the bucket truck should not take 12 hits but 5-6 hits.

      Your third point is very solid and I agree with you.

      And now your fourth point. I read the point over and over again and sometimes had the feeling that you might have misunderstood it.
      So about the Guard troops, Officer and Strom Group:

      I never said they were bad. I praised them very much and also said that when you get them they are excellent. Plus the officer is one of my favourite troops. The Strom group is very good, but the “Rocket House?” should have a higher pen rate. The problem is how to get the Red Guards.

      KV-1 and KV-8

      I understand your point about the KV-8 being behind a CP lock, but I still think the KV-1 is unlocked to begin with and still has a higher pen rate. Of course it shouldn’t hit a Panzer IV 2, but you should be able to kill it with 3-5 hits.

      “It has been contested about the infantry upgrades not carrying over, but I don’t think they can transfer over, as you can get a load of options, and have varying upgrades the can’t carry over (PTRS mainly). You get full SVT’s now, as that was a change done to alleviate the munitions sink a little.”

      There I had quite a bit of trouble figuring out what this had to do with my point. I had only wished that:
      I could have a Red Guard upgrade without ammunition IF I got a DB or PPSH upgrade. AND this only for the change to conscript > Red Guard.

      Your point about AT team is right, but I think it would be cool for the PTRS boyz to upgrade e.g. when PTRS boyz reach Vet 3 they get one Bazooka.

      “Soviet Guards are a direct upgrade to the conscripts, and with the DP or rifle grenades, aren’t hard to obtain, unless you are constantly sending them into battle without fully recovering from before.”

      That may be true (for early game), but losing the Red Guards is the biggest penalty in the mod. The Red Guards can’t be replaced as easily as Rangers or Commandos. You can of course say “GET GUD”.
      but this mod has a few 1 hit elements where I can’t do anything about it. Like the self defence grenade: There I had sent a 3 squad red guard team to a Jagdtiger and I got instant wiped. It was my fault, BUT I shouldn’t have been unable to get a Red guard squad for the rest of the game because everyone was driving around with tanks.

      On the point of the Paritsans, I understand that they are not an SS Inf squad. Still, I think they could be a bit better. I think they could use maybe 5-10% better aim.

      Thanks for the feedbacks and thoughts!

       

    • #14734
      BWChief
      Participant

      Atm, the Kübelwagen takes 5 shots from the PTRS, I have been collecting data on the PTRS as I very much dislike poking LV’s with the AT rifles of all kinds.

      Honestly, the reason its mainly conscripts, is because of the the lack of certifiable documentation of soviet training programs, otherwise, I am sure they would have more soviet units. Conscripts are the only type of soviet mainline infantry due to the lack of information on most other organized units.

      The “Rocket house” isn’t meant for anti-tank work, its actual design is anti-infantry and structure to structure fighting. http://www.tankarchives.ca/2014/10/panzerfaust-russian-style.html?m=1
      This is what it is based off of, and its not an Anti-tank weapon, it was mainly added as a anti-bunker piece, so that Guards rifles had some sort of infantry based anti-bunker equipment besides engineers.

      Honestly, I will hold that the KV-1 should require an unlock; it is capable of bouncing Panzer IV shells at range, although slightly, it still can bounce them, which happens to me quite a bit. They still are pretty decent for anti-infantry work, but I wouldn’t mind seeing them getting increased penetration. It’s also quite a game changer to have a heavy crusher at T3, since things like the IW rubble barrier (which can withstand a lot of damage when fully built) is rendered useless when a heavy crusher vehicle enters the field. This is similarly shown by the US’s use of Sherman dozers, which can be done with any and all 75mm shermans used by the US.

      “It has been contested about the infantry upgrades not carrying over, but I don’t think they can transfer over, as you can get a load of options, and have varying upgrades the can’t carry over (PTRS mainly). You get full SVT’s now, as that was a change done to alleviate the munitions sink a little.”

      Conscripts get a load more upgrades compared to Soviet guardsmen. You have the two packs, and the PTRS, which the PTRS doesn’t carry over into the guardsmen’s potential upgrades at all. “I don’t think they can carry over” comes from the fact that you literally are creating a new squad when you boost conscripts to guardsmen, and I don’t believe its possible to transfer over all the upgrades from conscripts to guardsmen, in a tools perspective (the devs do the coding, I just help maintain the chat channels. This combined with the inability for my PC to work with the tools)
      So in short; I don’t think its possible to transfer weapon upgrades, as its a whole new squad being made, rather than it changing into a new squad. It deletes the conscripts, and spawns guardsmen.

      Honestly, You should retire the PTRS squads unless you need a stronger infantry based AT presence, and at around Vet 2, they should get the ability to throw two grenades at a single target.
      As for the Jagdtiger, I believe with the coming of 3.4.4, the grenade launcher no longer insta-wipes infantry;
      -Nahverteidigungswaffe ability for JT, Sturmtiger and Panther Ace nerf
      – Damage reduced, AoE reduced, suppression increased.
      – Will insta-pin enemy squad and usually kill 1 squad member.
      – Will not squad wipe anymore
      – Reduced Cost and recharge time to compensate for nerf (50mun 70s to 30mun 60s)

      so max losses are now no longer a thing with the Nahverteidigungswaffe.
      As for Partisans, they feel strong enough atm. Not supposed to be a mainline combat unit, as your supposed to retire them when you build up your army; Swap them out for Red army partisans, and weapon teams (AT and MG). It’ll save you some MP for the swaps, and the teams will greatly out perform your partisans (Dual LMGs, more PTRS’s, and Panzerfäuste)

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