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I would like to share my views on soviet heavy vehicles. It was a case for quite long time, but recently when ISU 152 was buffed and ISU 122 was introduced to Shock Army it is even more complicated now.
First of all, these vehicles are incredibly powerful and can one shot every tank in game (and thats a good thing). This is combined with incredible armor (in case of ISU 152 historical accuracy is debatable ) and its also understandable.
The problem is, that these vehicles are able to almost instantly shoot to enemy targets. They dont need to aim at all. They just rotate towards enemy, and oneshot a tank or a squad. In addition they got quite high rate of fire in comparison to real values (historical values would be unacceptable due to balancing reasons however). Combination of these factors make them almost ridiculously effective against enemy armor. IMHO in current mod condition ISU 152 is the most dangerous, and most cost effective and versatile vehicle in game. It can literally one shot moving Tiger or Panther, almost in full speed and without aiming. Especially in case of ISU 152 its highly unrealistic. Consider that its primarly a spg with some anti armor role capabilities, but its not dedicated tank hunting vehicle.
It can also wipe out whole squad while moving or rotating.
I think that ISU 152 and ISU 122 should be not able to fire at move at all. Moreover they should require some time to aim – like 3 seconds after they stop. If this is not possible, they should have horrible accuracy while moving.
IS 2 also should also be unable to shoot while moving, or at least should have reduced accuracy. However it should be capable of aiming targets faster than ISU (thanks to turret).
Moreover they seems to be too effective as well( ISU’s ML20 mostly). ML 20 was capable of penetrating 125 mm of RHA from 500 meters which is not an outstanding result. However in game they almost always penetrate frontal Panther armor at any range. In the other hand extremaly massive 152 mm round could cause internal damage and armor fragmentation. I think that ISU should be making more shock, and critical damage, but it’s rounds should not be so penetrative.
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Hi Morgoth: First, thanks a lot for the feedback. Personally, I like the idea of non shooting on movement. I will check my values and see what I can do.
About “reload time” of those vehicles, well I can increase the time but the problem is, it will be a bit too much for a PvP.
About “aim time” the idea not feel bad but lets try first the non moving shooting. In the acutal state the ISU is slow, reload time is high and if we add 3 sec aim time will be maybe a bit too much. Maybe I can increase a bit the aim time as a first step.
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I endorse Morgoth’s view. I’ve played both for and against the Soviets, and with this in their inventory it they can just steamroll the battlefield.
I’ve tested hard countering and short of mining everywhere on suitable maps the German side can’t usually deploy an adequate counter early enough
In a 3v3 multiplayer it’s just too easy for one soviet to turtle and focus on unlocking the 122/152 then combine with a couple of other tanks to sweep opponent heavy armour off the field. Game over.
As Morgoth says it’s the one-shotting while mobile and high rate of fire that makes this unbalanced (to say nothing of hugely a-historical).
Suggested fixes
- Make at least one variant work like an SPG artillery barrage unit
- Slower rate of fire
- Lower pen. stats (Morgoth’s idea)
- Pause before shot (Morgoth’s idea)
- Make it fire able to fire when ‘setup for tank hunting / area fire – which makes it immobile, but can rotate. Needs to be be micro managed
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Im glad someone is interested in that issue. I find it the biggest balance flaw in all mod currently.
All soviet docs have very powerfull vehicles that can be matched only by stuff like King Tiger, Jagdtiger or Elefant. All other vehicles are just oneshoted without a question when they appear in range. Soviet heavies are not only cheaper, easier available, often more numerous, but also more versatile, they are not only tank killers, but “allstuff” killers as well. I like the idea of brutal, crude force of high caliber cannons/howitzers, but they cant be agile snipers at the same time. As “the” said soviets can steamroll battlefield, additionaly they have plenty of support, artillery weapons in all docs (katyushas. heavy mortars, best airforce, etc).
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