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Well, this post was always going to happen, one way or another, and admittedly it maybe should have come sooner, but the issue of motorized rifles costing fuel had to get fixed before the doctrine became playable had to happen first… and it did, so great job there.
The good:
-Armored riflemen got nerfed. As they needed to be. That squad cost a lot of misery, and it made US armor a pretty brainless doc to play. Even if it did have Pershings.
-Jacksons got limited. Also great, and needed, as Jacksons are crazy good. Broken, you might say.
-I like the idea of being able to choose the recon and Abrams call ins. That is also quite nifty. More on that later though.
-Abrams is a jumbo now! Synergizes with Jacksons, not too far off the beaten path in terms of CP, pretty good.
-As much as I hate it, phos barrage had to go. As if the doc was not brainless enough. Also hit way too early.
-Lot of neeto unlocks here and there, like the armored rifle upgrade, which I am a huge fan of, and the veteran 56 crews, again, I love it, and ofc the calliope is a deadly as ever.
The… less good:
This part will be my *constructive* feedback and suggestions.
Suggestion 1.) For the recon call in that consists of the greyhound and the 30 cal jeep: Replace it with either 1 Stuart *OR* 2 “neutered” greyhounds (i.e. without canister & 50 cal upgrade):
- Why? The twin 50 cal jeeps have a clear purpose: anti personnel, capable of anti light vehicle work if they get the jump on it. Cool. The M20 and M5 scout car call in sacrifice some offensive capability for survivability. Good (my preferred option). The 30 cal jeep and m3 greyhound I presume, was designed to help assist with early axis armor? Well, the issue is, it does not.
- Even after the 50 cal nerf, the m20 is still deadlier against most axis light vehicles. It tracks instantly, no turn speed issues if it is facing the right way, kills LV’s in around 3 bursts, and has almost the same HP/armor as the greyhound. In addition, it does not miss much, and can suppress/pin infantry. Unlike the greyhound.
- Both call ins die pretty quickly to luchs and pumas, which makes US armor vulnerable to them, especially since the 57mm AT gun is slow, and there is no access to AT rifle nades.
- 2 greyhounds would allow for favorable odds against most axis light vehicle play, but only if they are together, and no 45mm shots hit said greyhounds… a dangerous game. in return, all anti infantry firepower is gone… on a doc that does not get line infantry until tier 1.
- If it seems too strong, just make the greyhounds unable to upgrade with side skirts. This will bring the hits to kill for a puma and 45 back down to 2 shots instead of 3.
Suggestions 2-5.) All of these are related to task force Abrams. Good on paper, my issue is what happens when all of the taskforce dies… the airstrikes disappear… why? (Let me say again, the choice in themselves are perfectly fine!… the twin 75 jumbos seem the weakest to me, but I don’t think it merits huge changes) It seems like a pointless punishment for the player, especially since losing a pershing ace/105 sherman/2 75 jumbos is bad enough in itself! This is a 4 CP call in at the end of a 10 CP tree, and it bears the distinction of being the only call in that is completely wiped out once it dies, and provides no further value to the player. (iirc). I don’t think this makes much sense, so here are some minor suggestions to change this:
2.) Airstrikes persist after the call in dies. As you pay 4 CP for them (really 10), need a 1250 MP Abrams/jump, and 1500 MP for the call in, I think it is safe to say that the airstrikes should stay.
3.) Anti armor call in, once dead, raises Pershing limit to 2, and upgrades command M20 crew with bazookas.
- I think the bazooka armed crew is fun gameplay, and losing the pershing ace is already bad enough, as you lose reliable front pen ability against German superheavies.
4.) Anti personnel call in, once dead, raises all incoming 75 sherman crews to vet one, and makes AP/HE switch free.
- A small reward for using 75 shermans late in the game, and gives incentive to build them.
5.) Anti emplacement call in, once dead, allows buildable Sherman croco, limit of 1.
- Again, because losing a sherman 105 is already bad enough. And a squad of veteran infantry as well.
The command crew getting bazookas can be a toss up, but otherwise I think everything here would be good for US armor.
With regards to the other things I can comment on:
US Infantry wont need a post, because it is perfect.
US Arty confounds me. I have no idea what I think about it. (Confuse-a-cat doctrine)
YAY EVERTHING I HATED ABOUT PANZERJAGER IS DEAD NOW. (Referring to the shotguns on volkstrum). GOOD.
All of the other misc changes (Halftrack unit safety, Penal nerf, PZGren QOL change etc, etc) are ofc also very welcome.
As always, all changes are up to the devs and wider community.
- Why? The twin 50 cal jeeps have a clear purpose: anti personnel, capable of anti light vehicle work if they get the jump on it. Cool. The M20 and M5 scout car call in sacrifice some offensive capability for survivability. Good (my preferred option). The 30 cal jeep and m3 greyhound I presume, was designed to help assist with early axis armor? Well, the issue is, it does not.
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So from my understanding, from having helped do testing for the US armor, the reason for the recon call in being so..”weak” is because of the fact that its grabbed at T1, and because they didn’t want something really powerful. Its all easy to throw away vehicles, plus they have the ability to capture points; Cheaper LV’s to replace those losses, and you can make up for the fuel costs by capping points. It also seems to be mostly MG’s since .50’s were deemed “sufficient” for early LV work.
To break it down further; Greyhound plus .30 cal jeep was designed for 222 destruction, incase you wanted to sacrifice the MG power for a cannon. M20 and .30 cal HT was the armored MG combo, incase you wanted a .50 to ward off/attack early LV’s, and a .30 cal HT so it didn’t die to rifle fire. Lastly double .50 jeeps incase you wanted to maximize fire rate, at the cost of armor; You now have 2 .50’s, at the cost of all armor.
As for Abrams call ins, they were designed as “Set up task force plans” and are given to you as such. You still get a Pershing, so Ace just has a guaranteed penetration ability, with the ability to reach max vet. M20 armored car..I really had no idea what they were for, I couldn’t get them close enough for AT work, plus vehicle crews are rather fragile (Guess I have an idea for that, but thats for another time). Double Sherman jumbo’s…the bane of all thats holy in terms of infantry and small emplacements; sling HE, AP, or WP shells at all you desire while anything below a Tiger and Panther bounce off harmlessly. And anti-emplacement, with the design to destroy almost all good emplacements; 105 sherman to blow up wooden bunkers, Flamer to clear out defenses, or burn down bunkers/bases, and engineers to give you a more cost effective way to blow up concrete, with a bomb strike as a more costly version to nuke any target you desire (thought it was worth pointing out the airstrike as another concrete buster, since there were complaints on concrete busting).
As for the loss of airstrikes, it was decided to do such to give you an incentive to keep them alive. Once Abrams loses his task force, high command decides to put those resources to better use on another battlefield (at least, this is how I understood it)
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So I was correct then… Like I mentioned though, with regards to the intent behind the greyhound recon call in… the M20 works better for reasons mentioned. Which makes greyhound kind of an empty choice.
Regarding the airstrikes… Isn’t the fact that you cannot call in the whole call in ever again punishment enough? Do the airstrikes really also have to disappear? It is just unprecedented for a 4 CP capstone call in to just eventually become completely empty. No other doctrine has a punishment that is that severe. Losing access to a pershing ace, a 105 sherman, 2 75 jumbos… that seems punishing enough, especially since there are certain strikes that can easily just clip on of these call ins instantly. Morser for example. The V1 as another, the stuka zu fus for a third.
I understand what each of the options is meant for, I just don’t think that the greyhound option does anything the m20 option does not, and I don’t think the Abrams call in becoming an empty call in is justified. If there is a German force capable of destroying an Abrams call in, that should be a signal to deploy more units in an area, not less? Call more tank destroyers/heavy armor/air power/arty into the area?
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Battlechief pretty much covered everything I was going to say.
Here are some other thoughts on your suggestion:-Stuarts were purposely withheld from the recon call-ins for a few reasons. One, it would be too powerful at tier 1, and two, you can get them very cheap at tier 2 with the LV cost reduced upgrade. Your suggestion of two Greyhounds would be more powerful than the intended strength of the recon call-in. Your justification isn’t enough for us to change, and it’s slightly less interesting as far as vehicle variety.
-Abrams has always been a Jumbo. That wasn’t changed.
-Abrams airstrikes were something we felt was an extra bonus not really deserving(fitting?) to be prevalent in an Armor Doctrine. They are basically directly from the AB doc, so giving them to armor as well only made sense if they were limited.
-Just about all of the TF Abrams call-in vehicles are from other doctrines. Again, having them as a one time “event” makes it more interesting. If they all die, does US armor fold? Nah. The only thing I can see from your suggestions that I agree with is giving the Pershing a cap of 2 after the ace dies.Since this was a massive, time-consuming rework that is fairly recent, it extremely unlikely that any of it will change in the near future as we’ve moved on to other things that need attention….namely Wunderwaffe.
Like I said, the only thing I could see changing is the Pershing cap.
Thanks for your post.
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As for “totally losing them forever”, you do have access to the Sherman ARV, so if the wrecks are destroyed, you don’t lose them forever. You can resurrect any AFV from the dead with a ARV, it just comes down to how much you wanna invest to keep the wreck alive.
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In theory, yes, in practice no. And even if you recover the ACE, iirc, it becomes “just” a regular pershing. So, no, this is not a realistic solution. In addition, no other doctrine has to invest additional CP into keeping a capstone unlock alive.
I appreciate the effort. Perhaps once the entire call in dies (no matter what you picked), the pershing cap should rise to 2 anyway. Given the response I got, that is about all I have room to suggest.
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