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UKF’s Guards Armoured suffers heavily in late game compared to other Armoured doctrines. Once US Armoured finishes it’s tree able to get 3 Pershings and E8 spam; SOV Armour is able to capture points with tanks and spit out 34-85’s; and (current) OKW Armoured can throw out two Heavies and P4’s/Panther groups.
In order to help reduce this issue I think a change should be made to UKF’s producable roster, so it can stand toe-to-toe against the other armoured doctrines including USF and SOV:
Sherman V’s should be producable from the Company Command Post, potentially behind an upgrade but not from CP’s.
Cromwells are robust and versatile tanks but cannot fight the late-game mediums USF, SOV, and OKW can throw out such as 34-85’s, E8’s, and Panthers. The Cromwell’s gun, to no fault of the mod, cannot beat back the heavier mediums from other Armoured Doctrines and it doesn’t have the armour to make up for it either, and since Comets cosplaying as Challengers aren’t coming any time soon, Sherman V’s should be producable.
I admit to the point that this might make Cromwells completely irrelevant, which is why Sherry V’s could be behind an upgrade or just at a cost (compared to Cromwells) so your options are: Cheap Cromwells for Infantry cost, or Sherry V’s for standard (or slightly higher) med tank cost.
Following this the “Take Back Your Tanks!” Requisition should still give a pair of damaged Sherry V’s, but with the added bonus of free Tulip racks. The tanks remaining damaged means you’re not just throwing manpower around for free Sherries without the fuel cost, but you also get the free Tulips for it. As well as this, keeping the “Take Back Your Tanks!” Req means that UKF Guards’ Armoured can still survive on it’s backfoot, at the cost of the Sherry’s health, at least to begin with.
I believe this (paired with the planned firefly cost reduction) would finally fix UKF Guard’s Armoured’s inbalances that cripple it against other Armour doctrines, giving a competent medium tank option against the late-game tanks while still keeping Cromwells in the spotlight and a viable unit, and letting a good req keep it’s value.
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I have to agree with this it would help UK armored alot, Shermans have nearly an identical gun to the cromwell but come with more HP making them far more likely to survive engagements and win them, I´d say have their production locked behind the Take Back your Tanks. The Idea with the Free Tulips for these Shermans from the call in would make the call in more usefull and cost effective, a great change and a neat little buff for arguably a Armored Doctrine suffering compared to others of its type. And we shouldnt forget a price reduction for the Firefly.
Sidenote it would honestly turn the Cromwell into a great scouting tank which would be amazing and give it a great new use!
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If the shermans get the same apcbc rounds then i can see them being useful -ish. Tbh, as “bad” as cromwells are they are still superior too other tier 3 mediums in some ways. Very quick acceleration and speed, free apcbc, and idk why but the apcbc feels like it deals the same dmg as standard shot but with superior pen, something that no other high pen shot can do. Smoke rounds without any prerequisite upgrade are also nice. Unless the sherman has something too make it compete it will still be mostly obsolete. Especially since the sherman v uses the firefly model as a base and thus does not get a hull mg or pintle mg. If it had free tulip upgrade once tulips and the sherman were unlocked, it would fill a niche as a medium that can punch well above its weight. If it would be too op, you can just make it so only newly produced shermams have the tulips, and/or you have too tier up too tier 4 before tulips become default for free. All tank call ins are getting a fuel cost, that will include “take back ur panzers” . But once it has a fuel cost, if sherman vs are made produceable, i i question what role it will have. I don’t want it too be the only source of the free pre-upgraded tulip shermans, they need numbers too be effective and that would limit their numbers. Also, perhaps the cromwell could get an upgrade too make it the uparmored cromwell with 100mm of armorz i think Cromwell V or 8? Packaged with the cheaper cromwell unlock or just purchased as a seperate slightly more expensive cromwell all together, it would help em slightly go toe too toe with stuff like… Beute t34? Tbh the armor upgrade wont wake em too much more durable vs anything else they will still be penned so maybe just have guards armor get Cromwell mark V with 100 armor as default. Ill finish this post later but tell me what you think
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My point is Cromwells can absolutely fight P4’s and M4A1’s, but they fail hard against late mediums and Guards’ Armoured has 0 counter to late mediums tank-wise, and has to stick with the Cromwell. The Sherman V can nuke tanks compared to the Cromwell but it only exists as a call-in currently. Free tulip racks isn’t balanced even after Tier 4 upgrade, but a reduced cost following Tier 4, at least to fire, makes some sense to me.
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>After tier 4, with around 8-10 cp worth of investment, and only applying too newly produced shermans..it would still be op? Regardless of the fact tulips can miss due too how they are fired and have less range than standard shots. Once the fireflie gets it costs reduced then that will still be a superior option to sherman vs or cromwells as they are vs panther and tiger.</p>
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OK. There are a lot of issues here. A lot of suggestions. I disagree with all of them. ( 😀 )
My issue with making Sherman V producible is: why build cromwell? There will be no reason. The sherman outperforms the cromwell every damn time. Unless you want to make a 75mm sherman a tier 4 tank… for some reason?
My issue with making tulip rockets kill infantry is this: Unlike most vehicles that can kill infantry squads in 1 shot, these rockets are good against tanks. Unlike the greyhound these rockets can be set off at long range. (You see a greyhound advance forward at your infantry, wtf do you think it is doing? ofc you know).
Now you might point at stuff like the ISU-152, the JT, the IS-2, the Brumbar, and to that I say: Those units are annoying to deal with, and we don’t need more of them. You might point to the inherent RNG of the rockets: yes! that is what we need to rely on! RNG!
Guards armor is a tricky doc, because the cromwell is not very strong against big cats. You know what is? The firefly. The rockets cost so much CP, because they allow a firefly to solo a panther, even if the panther shoots first. (the timing is tricky, b/c you need to pen the panther with 17 pounder, hit it with both rockets, before it reloads)
Make the firefly cheaper. It is easy, it is quick. Make the rockets cost lest muni to attach to tanks. If that dont work, we can come back to the drawing board.
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It would be the difference between cheap and versatile Cromwells which are a lot faster and can make deeper pushes quicker, or more survivable but more expensive Sherman V’s.
Basically choosing mobility or armour.
This post was mostly made to adress the late-game medium problem rather than addressing Fireflies. As it stands UKF has no mediums of equal armour or gun power to beat Panthers, 34-85’s, or E8’s, which was the point I was trying to make here.
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“As it stands the ukf has no mediums of equal armor or gun power to beat the panther, 34-85, or e8s”
All of the tanks you mentioned fill different niches and I wouldn’t lump em all together into one category. The m4a3e8 is a tier 3 tank, not a tier 4 tank like t3485 or panther. And panther, for all intents and purposes, is a heavy tank gameplay wise. Too me i define a heavy tank as something that can reliably bounce the other teams AT gun. Cause that means it has the survivability typically too do heavy tank things and fit the heavy tank role. But ofc thats just a general guideline, not a strict rule. Anyways, the firefly is supposed too be the main equivalent too the t3485 or panther. The sherman V simply cant be made too be equal too the panther, atleast, not in any balanced way. Maybe it can be made closer too t3485 but even then thats quite the stretch. Its just a tier 3 unit being compared too tier 4 units which are supposed too be superior. And as i said in my other post a couple minutes ago, the cromwell beats the sherman V in most regards aswell.
Sorry if i misunderstood what you were saying.
Also, do you not do axis vs allies in wikinger pvp? The game is balanced around axis vs allies so idk why a sherman V would have too beat an m4a3e8. 3485s are in one axis doc only, and tbh the sherman V can probably do decently vs it if it gets lucky with its shots and pens twice. But thats one axis doc, that situation wont wont up often.
Again, sorry if u meant something else that i didnt see.
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nick I was contrasting more with other Armoured Doctrines and their superior late mediums compared to UKF’s lack of late mediums. I do Allies vs Axis in Wikinger pvp pretty often, but there’s no point playing UKF Guards Armoured if SOV or USF Armoured has the edge of better mediums against things like Panthers.
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Well, vs panthers, for us armor the best thing is jacksons. For soviet armor the best thing isnt the t3485, its pen is too lackluster too deal with the panther reliably at long or even close range. Vs tigers its a bit better tho. But the equivalent too these things is the firefly, not Sherman V. All tier 3 vehicles, with a couple exceptions, typically become obsolete at tier 4. The wolverines Excellent pen lets it do work vs tigers and maybe panther, and cromwells with apcbc also lets it punch above it weight even when tier 4 rolls around, although apcbc is better on the Churchil anyways due too its armor. So, in terms of allied armor docs having better mediums too counter panther, the 2 are really Jackson and firefly. T3485 in my experience isn’t good enough. Ofcourse if you count all kinds of tanks instead of mediums- then yeah sov armor gets the is2 which makes tiger and panther obsolete. But in terms of mediums the best docs are uk and us armor, granted the jackson has a slight advantage over the firefly cause it can 1 shot jagdpanzer and pz4, firefly cant, but firefly has 6x scope and, if you got plenty of muni and fuel too spare, tulips, so they sort of even out in terms of being effective. The main thing holding back uk armor is the expensive fireflies, tbh, sherman Vs as a whole arent a essential part of the doc. Most of my asking too buff them is just so they dont end up being completely overshadowed by other parts of the doc. But if they are, aslong as firefly gets its price reduced , the doc will still be playable, good, reliable, etc.
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In my opinion, as it stands, the Shermans are less-than stellar, and all of the changes suggested would make them much more viable. Why would I drop 900 manpower on two beat-up Shermans when I can spend the same amount on a Firefly? Having them be producible would give you a stop-gap tank for that time between the Cromwell and the Firefly because, as it stands, the Cromwell falls off quickly and there is nothing to fill that late medium tank. Having them be producible would give you some nice choices in playstyle and would add something to that gap to make the doctrine as a whole a little more viable, while the free Tulips would keep that requisition worth the 900 manpower drop.
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I dont get why everyone has the assumption the sherman V is “better” than the cromwell. Theres so much too unpack about this claim. id argue its more of a side grade at best and a downgrade at worst than a direct upgrade in a lot of ways
Cromwells have free APCBC, sherman Vs dont.
Cromwells have a hull mg. sherman Vs dont, cause firefly base model
Cromwells are naturally speedier, both in terms of max speed and acceleration, and have the ability too speed up further with the ability. Sherman V doesnt have either.
Cromwells have smoke rounds. Very useful. Sherman V doesnt.
The only advantage the sherman V has is more armor (which may let it reliably bounce a beute t34 or 45 but not much else, if it can pen a cromwell it typically can still pen a sherman V) and the fact it has more HP. I will admit the extra HP can come in handy, occasionally. But the margins of advantage arent the best. A non vet elefant still cant 1 shot a less HP cromwell. Maybe the fact that aces typically have vet 1 or slightly better stats means a tiger ace can one shot a cromwell from spawning. But then again, atleast the cromwell has the potential too be a threat too the tiger. The sherman V just doesnt have that potential. Atleast, not as affordably, with having too upgrade with fuel and muni for tulips.
Enough cromwells have, in my experiences, been able too deal with normal axis heavies in actual head on engagements due too their free APCBC. Assuming you have enough of em though. But they are much more reliable then say, us armor going for m4a3e8 too face tiger and panther, in my experiences. its important too take into account that the sherman V suffers more than it actually Should due too lacking MGs it Should have due too model limitations. And if you want, you could model tulip HE rockets seperately than tulip SAP rockets. Give the HE tulip ability less range and make it only available for the sherman V. But right now the shermans just straight up barely fill any niche. Even after my proposed changes, it would be what… 8-7 cp too unlock sherman Vs and tulips. And i mentioned this can only apply too newly produced shermans too get tulip rockets. If this is still miraculously too good, a m5 tulip halftrack that arms nearby sherman V with tulip rockets could be implemented available after tier 4 that you have too buy before getting free tulips for ur sherman Vs. But i dont think it would be that bad.
Anyways, i hope y’all see what i mean when i say the sherman V needs more than just being produceable too actually be a good option in game instead of a noob trap for people too waste their resources inefficiently on.
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