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“The M82 armor-piercing capped shot was the main round used for engaging enemy tanks. It had a large explosive filler to increase damage after penetration. It was capable of penetrating 129 mm of armor angled at 30 degrees from the vertical at 500 yards (457 m) and 122 mm of armor at 1,000 yards (914 m) The T30E16 HVAP shot was capable of penetrating 221 mm of armor angled at 30 degrees from the vertical at 500 yards, and 199 mm of armor at 1,000 yards.The T30E16 HVAP round had difficulty with the highly sloped glacis plate of the German Panther tank, so the T33 AP shot was developed to solve this problem. The T33 shot was a normal substitute standard M77 armor piercing shot that was heat-treated to improve its hardness and fitted with a ballistic “windshield” to improve its drag characteristics. The T33 and T30E16 were only issued in very small numbers towards the end of World War II. The M71 high explosive shell was used for indirect fire, or engaging enemy infantry, antitank guns, light vehicles, or other soft targets.”
I want propose giving 90mm US guns limited use of these shells. These shells should penetrate King Tiger from long range.
As far as I know these shells penetrated ~185mm of sloped armor (60 degrees) on 600 meters
And ~170mm sloped armor on 900-1000 meters.
As for non sloped armor… Let’s say it could penetrate the elefant on 800 meters 😛
As for their weight, it’s ~0.7 of the standard shell mass, so I’d suggest lowering the damage to 0.8 compared to the standard jackson/pershing damage, to keep the balance right.Balance-wise these shells should penetrate any german tank from 500 (king tiger)-800(elefant) meters.
These shells could solve the problem of “Super heavies OP, pls nerf”.
Share your thoughts. -
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statistically historically, in that time in ww2 they did not have those shells
jk, Would balance it tho, except from white phosphorous
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https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Medium_Tank_M26_Pershing
just for more info on what type of shells can be fired, M304 shot can pen 264-260mm of armor between 10 meters and 100 meters, would be a very viable solution to counter the fact that the KT and Elefant are practically invincible to damn near everything other then airstrikes and arty
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The following text and illustrations are reproduced from a U.S. War Department pamphlet published in January 1945.
Armor penetration values in inches against 30 degree plates.
How the shell looked like
Complete penetration of glacis plate of German Pz Kpfw V (Panther) Tank by Shot, A.P., 90mm, T33 at a range of 1000 yards.
All that is here: http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/90-mm-ammunition/
Shipment of the shells arrived in the 2nd last month of the war. These shells should penetrate everything on long range imo balance/realism-wise.
Also:
accuracy report of those guns was equivalent of 3 minutes of angle
3 inch group at 100 mthats as good as any rifle of the era -
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I don’t know if you’re trolling me or not meatshield, but I’m talking about adding M304 round, which had one of the best penetration values in the whole allied tank arsenal.
I don’t think you can misread it, but it had ~7 inches of pen on 1000 yards against 30* degrees plate and when you convert it to normal human beings values it equals to 178 mm of pen on 914 meters. against 30* degrees plate
30* degrees sloped plate.
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OK, so again historical accuracy argument came when talking balance, so I thought of a different idea.
Basicly at the moment. HVAP should penetrate everything with 99% chance from long range, BESIDES:
a) King Tiger (high chance to pen)
b) JT (Medium-high chance to pen)
c) anthing that has more than 220 mm of effective armor up front in any place. (Dunno which tank would have more, so let’s put it as is, maybe sturmtiger in the future)Anything that this round does not pen with a super high chance and is not on the list is probably a bug that will be looked at and fixed ASAP (thanks meatshield <3).
So I came up with another idea. Based on the documents I posted, accuracy report of those guns was equivalent of 3 minutes of angle. 3 inch group at 100 m!
For some of you these mean nothing, so let’s put it that way…
These shells were as accurate as the rifles in that era. Pershing shooting these shells could be compared to a sniper or surgeon.
Soooooo…Target weak spot ability!
Tiger has OP long-shot ability, so why not add something similar, yet different for the pershing?
How I think it should work:
1. 1.2 range of the normal pershing range (M304 shells had higher speed and could be delivered much further).
2. Ability always pens.
3. Damage is of the normal pershing damage. It does not deal less damage.
4. Shell apply 5-10 seconds stun (5 for Tiger/Panther and below and 10 vs Super heavies like KT)Tuning the balance of the ability is one thing, but you get the main idea:
Always penetrates, applies stun, does good damage, slightly more range.What would it fix? First of all Pershing costs ton of resources AND FINALLY could be used to counter german tanks instead of hiding from them. Because it does not have crazy range, you would have to flank with pershing to use it which rewards good tacticians…
I can only find it good for the game and justified, because Tiger has it’s crazy Long-shot ability 😀
Share your thoughts 😛 -
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