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OK. The issues with these mates has been laid out proper by me, and by others. And we could probably use a solution. Mine is to remove them entirely and spread/buff other counters throughout the docs, but from what I have heard, that opinion does not seem to be the popular one. So the issues, i think is agreed, with these squads is as follows:
- the whole charge-shoot-retreat mechanic is a bit rediculous
- they 1 shot all light vehicles, and 2 squads can kill a med. tank in 1 salvo
- hard to suppress, or in case of rangers, impossible to supress
- can ambush, with it being hard to uncover due to light spotting vehicles encountering problem 2.
So that out of the way, I’m thinking to write my arguments against certain tweaks proposed, and if someone can find a solution that leaves them in the game that I have not thought of (very probable), then that would be great! Lets get our minds together on this.
- Moving the AT squads back 1-2 tiers
- I don’t like this solution at all. What is there to stop people rushing to later tier and just doing the same thing they currently do?
- Also this does not solve the issue with AT squads and medium tanks, who would still suffer against them.
- Also, once these guys come onto the field, any light vehicles are basically out of date.
- Making these squads VERY suppressible
- So what i mean is this: 2 AT squads, lets say from luft/rangers with full vet charge a panzer 4 with 2 squad of grenadiers/Sherman 76 with 2 squad rifles in support get pinned.
- definitely better, but I think this punishes allies far too much. With this level of suppression, the best option would be to ambush. Ok then. This punishes allies because of the way OKW players play. They keep their tanks at max range, forcing allies tanks/AT squads to charge forward to get a good flank shot- right into axis AT squads, or plenty of infantry to suppress the allied AT squads. Axis tanks run into the same problem VS Churchill, but their paks are supposed to get new shells, and tiger can pen Churchill.
- Also what about urban combat, where tanks/infantry often don’t know what lies around the corner. Just hide squads behind a building, wait till tank passes, then just fire away. Would supporting infantry be able to pin the squad in time? What if there is an enemy MG involved, and you need tank to kill it?
- Limited them/ raising cost
- Does not solve anything I don’t think. Just postpones it/ makes it rarer.
Ofc, removing them presents its own problems to British and Americans. They rely on these squads as they have no equivalent to german pak 40/divisional gun of the soviets. I was thinking of making emplacements have a longer shot ability, like IW tiger ace, as well as making them less manpower-draining, as well as making sticky bombs have longer range as well as stun the offending tank every time, as well as giving them to all US rifle squads
Maybe also give 57mm gun a “hit track” ability to immobilize a German tank? But then that would also such against med tanks and lighter vehicles as well.
Then again, my test for american tanks show that they are not that bad against German heavies. Maybe its some issue above combines with a cost decrease.
Maybe making rockets only shootable if squad is not suppressed? Binding them to ambush only.
You know what, I like this idea! (very stream-of-thought post). How about AT squads can only fire if in ambush mode and not revealed?
What do you all think?
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I think we are on the right track with ambush mode and not suppressed. Ambush mode is realistic and i think its the way we should go but Id prefer to see a huge accuracy nerf when suppressed but still be able to fire (badly).
What would then need to be solved would be all the regular infantry squads that get AT rockets because the ambush sytsem may not work in this case.
Also AT grenades would then become insanely powerful, what do we do with them?
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So lets take this piece by piece: so the conditions for firing would have to be both in ambush mode AND not suppressed? ofc we would have to make sure the scout vehicles have a wide enough scouting radius. This would shift anti tank duties to anti-tank guns.
regular infantry anti tank would have to be severely limited. US rifle anti-tank kit should be only sticky bombs. Unless US rifles, then those guys should have a bazooka kit. And maybe some other kits to make them special. The zook should be a doc unlock, however, to make it late game.
Panzer fausts might need to be takes away from wunder grens. Gerbs could also lose thier fausts.
anti tank grenades… well the grenade assault of the conscripts should go, for sure. way to powerful of an ability to have on a basic infantry. US rifle-anti tank grenades might also need looking at. But with the new resource system making munitions scarce, between upgrading troops, building arty pieces, mortars, calling in air/arty strikes, I don’t think AT nades are the biggest concern. If they turn out to be, then we can take care of that later.
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Hello gentlemen, I think AT squad right now is not a big issue, but yes, I can sense that there is a little issue with it when AT-squad suddenly appears in a plain terrain and shoot down your Medium tanks when they are standing.
as I did discuss with Death-kitty and Ragnar about this problem, we brainstormed and fought 3 ways to solve the problem instead of removing them:
1. 3-men-AT squad
2. AT-squad are only able to shoot when in camoflage.
3. Change Movable camoflage of AT squad to Standing camaflage only (with Hold-fire following) for ambushThe former sounds reasonable but 2 shooters and 2 reloaders gonna be cool with AT-squad
The secound is probably no realistic, in real life, soldiers can shoot whenever they want and how about right in the conflic, 2 sides shoot each other and we order AT-squad to advance but… they can’t shoot. what the hell??
The third is the most reasonable and I agree with this, because I think the Movable Camoflage ability should only be given to “Most elite” troop, AT squad is just regular and should have standing camoflage only.
Completedly removing them is really bad idea, how an army don’t have a very functionable squad like that??
About he idea that change AT-squad to tier 3, I don’t care much about it but if the idea is approved, there will be more chance to be used for Light tank, vehicle, early Pak gun and panzerfaust. So it suppose that not a bad idea.
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