3.3.8 Tier list

Now that I have had time to play around with every doc and gather some data, I feel comfortable posting a new tier list, with explanations.

TLDR (in order, most powerful in tier on the left):

S tier: Wunder, PJ, COC (maquis), OMSBON, USSR arty, SID

A tier: SS arty, Canada arty, US AB, US infantry, US armor, USSR armored guards

B tier: Panzer gren, volks, lowlands, UK armor, US artilliry

C tier: COC commandoes, Luft, IW, Soviet rifle guards

D tier: Nothing!

S Tier: Where all the OP docs go.

• Wunderwaffe: With the KT, a Tiger with s-mines, map hacks, StG’s everywhere, an MG-42 with more range, and the much beloved stuka-zu-fus, the fact that this doc takes the top spot should not be a surprise. The top half of this doc tree sees almost constant use, while the bottom half (pervitin, sniper, propaganda drop, goliaths) just don’t ever see combat. Its a shame, as that is where all of the interesting stuff is. Wunder gets it’s top spot for being able to, in the late game, invalidate any skill thanks to the walking stuka, uhu, and KT. Being able to micro 2 units has never been so good.
• Panzer Jager: To anyone who knows me, this should not be a surprise. After sorely needing a nerf after the many games of 3.3.7, the doc, in 3.3.8 came out with… a net buff. The new jager load-outs, while neutered a bit, are bolstered by an extremely strong MG-42 kubel. This mobile suppression, along with jager’s tendency to kill anything at range, means you will have enough muni to get your SVT’s the second tier 1 hits (why throw nades?). Add to this the Stug rush becoming very popular, the stuh 42 still being really good, and the JT that still has scopes and S-mine, and you have one hell of a combination.
• COC (Maqis branch): Going all the way from COC tier to S tier, this part of COC has made the jump. I decided to split the doc in half, because the 2 branches seem like separate choices, as oppose to being meant to work with one another. Being able to load up on AEA infantry with piats is perhaps gone as a strat, but given time, you will still load up on AEA grenades, the bane of axis players everywhere (and rightly so). What makes this doc truly S-tier though, is the vehicles. Dirt cheap infantry supported by: one of the strongest autocannons once deployed, a 95mm howitzer that seems to get a bonus to hit when fighting me, a panzer 4 with no build time, and, ofc, the croc. You like using infantry? Too bad. Add to this a well microed Tiger, and this doc becomes very hard to beat.
• OMSBON: For much the same reasons as above, mostly relating to AEA. However, we get our first mention of soviet mortars: with massive range, dirt cheap reinforcement cost once re-crewed with cheap units, these are truly brainless. you put them behind a LOS blocker (cant sniper em) far away from any other units (cant mortar them b/c of their range), and block with AEA ambush units and an MG (the maxim is the best tier 0 MG; cant rush em!), and you will win by just murdering you opponent to death. And you can recover any vehicle in a short period of time for just 60 fuel! What’s not to love?
• USSR Arty: I don’t want to put this doc here. I don’t think it belongs here. But there is one build that prevent me from putting this doc in A tier: Penal spam into double soviet mortar, rush T-34-85 Ace, 3 76mm howi, bombardment, WIN. Its loathsome to play against, because unless you have a rushable flame tank, you will not clear out the opponent before being bombed to death. Its skill-less, infuriating, and is a waste of 87.5% of this docs abilities.  If you cant take out the Ace, you will be fine if you have flametanks, but axis docs that are hard pressed for AT and fuel with find this one hard to counter
• SID: Another doc I dont think is OP… Apart from the grenades. Undodgeable, with a radius that effectively gives them the longest thrown distance in the game, on a unit that costs nothing to build, and less to reinforce, the problem with SID is that you see the stupid nade in every game. They suck from the beginning, and that is why they are here. The only bright spot is if you can get past the oppressive early game, and effective armored anti-infantry (read: flame tanks/autocannons/howitzer tanks) will melt them. However, their ability to control the map in tier 0, then defend it in tier 1 with deckungs is enough to put them AND THIER TEAM ahead.

A tier: these doctrines are stronger than they should be, but bringing them is not an instant win.

• SS arty: Don’t want to play RTS? Prefer a point-and-click adventure? Well, this is the doc for you! As one of the earlier doctrines (the first arty doc, as a point of fact) in a game that sorely lacks assets (dammit SEGA!), the lack of on-map can be forgiven, but the tier 1 panzer-pioneer halftrack combined with SS grens upgraded, combined with no-setup on thier arty? It’s strong, and it’s easy. What saves it from S tier is an incredible weakness to early allied auto cannons (read: M15), and being pushed early, which can put it behind. It also has the poor SS trucks, making muni stockpiling very difficult.
• US AB: This is a weird one, because it is so old. It has an insanely good tank rush, decent infantry, and instant airstrikes, as it is the only doc to still have the old airstrike system. However, apart from that, it generally does not function as a doc that can operate behind enemy lines, with the minimap revealing drop zones instantly, and no AEA. Which is a shame, because that would be an insanely fun play style.
• Canada Arty: As an arty doc, this one is in a weird place. What makes it A-tier is the free HQ batteries, dirt cheap arty, and the UNCLE, while being able to generate massive muni though the ammo dump, and still maintain a presence on the field. I don’t like arty docs with no setup, and I think Canadian arty is far too effective for what little setup it needs. There are a massive amount of unlocks that are just not that good (Tommy prince, all of the arty abilities). With all of its batteries, it becomes an oppressive monster, but the tradoff is a crash of your MP income, and being essentially useless as batteries get built. This is what saves it form S tier.
• US infantry: Defensively in a better spot than it was last time. WP is not so oppressive anymore. But it still is a tier higher… Why? Ironically from the same player that brought you the USSR arty build. Essentially, you spam engineers, send them to die while repple-depple is active, and harvest the free riflemen. Not to mention, it is a good doc. Jumbos, 105 sherman, the mortar, all are quite good, and WP is still WP. It also has the m-15, which is incredibly OP atm. Also, instant reinforcing riflemen is really nice! Sadly, rangers are incredibly mediocre and CP intensive, and just don’t bring anything to the table, and the M8 scott is weak as well. This is personally my least favorite doctrine, as its abilities make it feel like a human-wave attack doctrine, and I don’t think that is what US infantry should be.
• US armor: Probably one of the weaker A-tier docs, but armored riflemen, a phos barrage at tier 2, the calliope, and the jackson, on top of dirt cheap tanks, make it a shoo-in here. Riflemen, with their one-hit-wonder AT nades don’t help. Not much more to be said. (buff the persing, give the Pershing ace a character!)
• USSR Armored Guards: should be in B tier (this doc is like… an A-), but it has an amazing tier 4, with T-34-85’s and the IS-2. The only issue is getting there: worst AT gun, no substantial infantry AT to speak of, and the T-34 is easily the worst tier 3 tank in the game (No AP power, (unlike the 75 Sherman) no useful gun (unlike PZ 4 and sherman 76) and no speed (unlike crom)) Sure, you have to extra armor, but that comes too late, and costs too much. Mazurin (IMO) is overrated, and easy to avoid until you can kill it. The only use for the T-34 is to ram big cats in the hope of pinning enemy tanks for bigger stuff to kill later. Thankfully, at least they are cheap enough.  It does have a good flame rush, so there is that.

B tier: Balanced tier: Where all docs should be. (This does not mean they are perfect)

• Panzer gren: Has a bit of everything, but not too much of it. Has some interesting rushes, a unique lategame, decent infantry. However, the brumbar gets overshadowed… by what? (**salt incoming**) Fricking S-mines! This doc would be perfect were it not for them… You see, to my understanding, S-mines were to ward off infantry close assault… but this is not what they are used for! Oh no! what you do is you get S-mines and a panther, drive up to a soviet players ambulance, or main base, and just kill all of his infantry. It’s retarded, and soviets are especially vulnerable to it. S mine need to removed from the big cats (or at least the panther) and the Pz-4 S-mines should be volks-style grenades.
• Volksgren: Pleasantly able to put this one here. Its good. nothing rushable that should not be, has interesting and unique mechanics, there is room for fun here. (Plus, hetzers in this mod actually DIE!!). My only gripe would be the panther grenade, for the same reason as the panther S-mine (but worse)… but, hey, at least its an ace that cannot be rushed. Volks does have really weak early AT, with the PAW being CP locked (3!!), and there is an issue for leig spam early on if it is properly supported, but these 2 issues balance themselves out (but they are still issues, lets be clear)
• Lowlands: Another good doc. Has some weak units (highlanders) but nothing too offensive. Has a bit of everything it needs. Its fine. 3-in mortar bit is OP, but other than that. Yeah. Definitely balanced, IMO.
• UK armor: this one is a… B-. Has good infantry, has *potentially* good tanks in the firefly, but needs a bit more damage potential to outweigh the low health/armor of the firefly (*cough cheaper tulips cough cough*). Airstrikes could be cheaper too.
• US artillery: Another B- doc… Artillery is expensive, in both CP and muni, priests are… terrible, and a lot of the doc is never used (perhaps has the least used ability in the inflatable Sherman). AT is hard to find, as getting a wolverine to vet 1 takes a bit, while the upgrade itself is expensive, and the emplacements are… sub-par. Supported, it becomes a real nuisance, and the flame tank (through very expensive) is always a nice touch. The black dragon and long tom are breathtaking when they actually hit, and their spotting radius is infinite.

C-tier: Underpowerd, but still usable if supported, in some cases.

• COC commandos: Buoyed up the same 95mm centaur and croc as maquis, but without the light vehicles, or the dirt cheap effective infantry. Commandos are muni and MP expensive, and just not worth it. Once this doc gets established, with SAS (aka the good commandos) and tanks, it does really well. But as it is right now, the commando load outs are too expensive, and just not that good, though the specialist squads are quite competent. It’s like a C+
• Luft: Sad to see this one here. After it had climbed out of C tier after its rework, I hate to have to shove it right back in. The lack of crowd control and bombardment/breakthrough capability is what keeps it in C-tier. the airstrikes are just too expensive and do too little for a doc that already is incredibly MP, muni, fuel and CP thirsty. It is good in theory, and just needs some tune-ups. In smaller games, luft can easily be a B-tier doc, if their infantry are allowed to shine. But right now, given how good stuff like british infantry and AEA is now, it’s a hard sell.
• IW: This doc has been all over the place, but a lack on a mobile AT gun can make transitioning into tier 3 hard. Random infantry, a difficult reinforcement system, turn a lot of people off from this doc. This would be fine if the doc were strong otherwise, but with no mortars in tier 1, an expensive bunker that gates mediocre support abilities behind a lot of CP… its just not that good. Once supported though, and the SU-76 arty hits in force, and the tigers come out… oh yeah. but before that… meh. It also is a doc that is incredibly vulnerable to flame tanks.
• Guards rifle: A lot of meh elements that combine to make a C-tier doc. Lets start: very bad early AT, shock infantry that is a bit too squishy, even though they have suppression immunity and armor, the katyusha, which is expensive, and terribly inaccurate (I have had more luck aiming to the side of my targets then at them), potentially a terrible call in the the shape of the Churchill, and a mediocre late game tank in the IS-1. I does, however, have a great tier 1 and tier 3, but also has tier 2 and tier 4 weak spots that hold it back.

D: Tier: Useless. By picking these docs, you lower your teams chances of winning…

• Nothing comes to mind… so, that’s good.

• This topic was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by Death_Kitty.