Home Forums General Discussion Suggestions Nerf the Partisan SMG troops

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    • #11902
      Lüng
      Participant

      They  are too capable and bottleneck my whole lineup. They throw AT grenades for free once the munitions cost is spent, combine that with the AT partisans, who cause transmission damage upon hit, they literally dominate early game. I lose every, single, game, against partisans, and I have even accounted for community feedback (Build a 221, or 222, with infantry awareness) no matter what the scenario was, I lost out. My 222 died instantly, my 221 died instantly, the SMG troops are simply too powerful.

      So at most I can recommend that you please strip them of their PPsH’s and leave them with Mp40’s which have, slower fire rate. These guys can probably 1v1 shock troops at the moment, because they can go camo, walk up right to your face, and just murder you. You have no awareness, you have no chance of surviving this. You just die. Even when hitting retreat instantly, there is a 50/50 you survive the SMG troop encounters. They’re just so powerful.

      I have no direct counter to these units, and even taking my scout cars into consideration, my scout cars are too bulky to allow me to correctly pathfind, I have to rely on a dinky car with bad pathfinding, where as my opponent can just walk up and instantly decimate my troops if they choose partisans. I don’t mean to be rude, but how in gods name is that fair. Not even Assault Grens or normal Freeweilligen troops with x2 PPsH’s are this strong. Taking that into consideration with the fact they spawn, just immidiatly with those guns. I don’t know what to do. Maybe I’m too new, but I can garuntee I you could pit OMSBON against any person like me, and they’ll struggle against it. OMSBON seems to be targetted at long time Wikinger Players who have a grasp on what they’re doing, and more brutal towards newer players like me. If it’s not the SMG troops, its the fact they get to salvage tanks. I lost a whole game as Iron Will, because my opponent salvaged all the tanks I rushed his base with, his DhSK bunkers, covered my dead tanks, and thusly he was able to rush me with 6 T34’s, 2 KV2’s and those horrid partisans he’s been skulking me with the whole game.

      I don’t mean to be rude about it, but please consider an OMBSON rework, or a rework on those horrid SMG troops. I have had the least fun in Wikinger, fighting OMSBON.

    • #11932
      Gaz74
      Participant

      OMSBON has a lot of ridiculously powerful stuff, the assault squad being only one of them. At the moment, perhaps the most potent assault squad thanks to their ability roster, which include stick grenades, AT grenades (volley of these can kill Tiger Ace!) and weaponry, PPSH-41’s. Add to that the advanced camouflage ability, voila, murder machine complete. Oh, and you get two of these. Because why not. 😀

    • #11934
      BWChief
      Participant

      So heres the one big that that will screw over any OMSBON player, myself being one. Panzer II Luchs Spam. This will pretty much negate any assault an OMSBON player wants to make. The Luchs are capable of surviving PTRS volleys, and will keep any OMSBON units at bay.

      Apart from that, its always best to have something that detects. I have seen officers added to frontline units. I use Hando from Narwa call in as a frontline officer, and he does very well to detect them when they are close to my men. Does it mean they will definitely win? probably not, those PPSH’s are quite nasty, and unless you have detector vehicles around, they will continue to be very nasty. You should pair a Panzer II, 222 (not really recommended, same as the next), Panhard, or any detector you can scrounge from the battlefield. I personally am a fan of stolen T-70’s.

    • #11963
      Lüng
      Participant

      “So heres the one big that that will screw over any OMSBON player, myself being one. Panzer II Luchs Spam.” Unfortunately for me, that is a Tier 2 unit. The map deniers, the SMG troops are Tier 1. They require very low chance to get, and only require manpower. If they die reinforcing isn’t life or death as they can wipe me out more than them.

      I hate to be rude because, Genuinely I’m not too hostile on this, but the SMG troops as is, are broken. They beggar you to change your whole roster. Build orders? Invalidated. Assault fronts? Invalid. SMG troops go against everything partisans stand for. They don’t feel right in the doctrine and feel like buffed up shocktroops on speed. I can give my dudes methamphetamine as Wunderwaffe and they will not prove half the efficiency of these SMG troops. 1 on 1, mark my words exactly as I type them, the SMG troops are capable of taking on every, single, infantry unit, in game. They are simply too strong due to the fact they can camo and move at such ridiculous paces. Then just pull a Hoodini and make the enemies troops instantly, vanish.

      It’s really sickening everyone suggests that I have to invest fuel just to detect them, or build an officer. If I build an officer and they flank me though, It’s over again, because again, these guys can move full speed, in camo, and go around me, to wipe me during retreat. Even then on certain docs, my troops lack the fire rate to confront these. Infantry based, or vehicle based, I cannot feasibly fight off the horde of SMG troops. They are too powerful and really, I hate to say it because of the beautiful portrait work but, I’d rather see them removed at this point than a rework. But that’s out of sheer frustration. Any idiot can just play SMG troops and win, it requires very low effort and only experienced wikinger players can counter such a menace. Which is not fair, fun, or very nice to anyone trying to get into the mod.

      SMG troops are the equivalent of making Shock Troops camo. They are simply just that good. Hell, I think leaving them as a call in at this moment in time, would be a better idea than letting them remain as a build able unit. They’d be the Jaegerbond of the Soviet Union. Because holy christ, I don’t have any firepower to deal with the bastards, And when I do wipe them, it doesn’t matter. My opponent can rebuild them and bam, there goes my effort. For the manpower cost, its simply too strong a unit and I Genuinely cannot stress to you how broken, unfun, and painstaking it is to play against OMSBON As long as they have the tier 1 end game unit that costs 0 command points. This is quite genuinely the only unit in all of wikinger, I have flat out just told myself is broken. Because genuinely, it is. There is no counter. There is no winning. You roll over and die. You invest in light armor that only lasts all of 2 seconds before your opponent throws a sticky at it, because Infantry Detection is a timed ability. which makes fighting them even more aggravating and annoying. Not only am I wasting fuel I could use to tech, I am using munitions just to find the sneaky bastards? for 300+ Manpower, SMG’s are a literal game changer.

      Pair this with the fact that, I have to go the whole game holding off against them when Tier 1 is such a pain in the ass as is, I can’t even rush their base and deny them the ability to build them, and with how powerful they are, why wouldn’t my opponent build them? Again, for 0 CP, 320 Manpower (Uncited), and only tier 1, this is quite possibly the biggest cancer in all of wikinger.it has no counter, it has no requirement before you get it, you just get it and tear your opponent in half. There is no sneaking. The biggest unit of the partisan doc, is barely considered a partisan…

      Again, hate to be rude. But you can’t read all these points and claim to me Partisan SMG troops are fair. They just aren’t. They’re close range Jaegerbond with an active camo that allows them to move at normal speeds, cost less than Jaegerbond, Require no CP, and just take Tier 1 to build. There is no unit in the mod right now with such devastating capabilities other than the SMG partisans. I would just remove their MK2 Camo ability, leave it at MK1 crawly ability, and give them MP40 SMG’s instead of PPsH’s. It’s absolutely BS that they can just fullsprint around the map and appear just to wipe all your units with low effort required in the matter. Even Shocktroops, a comparably worse unit, requires CP to unlock. And you have to jump a couple hoops to get them, too.

      Again, for the full rant typed here, This really isn’t a Tier 1 unit. It can take away the whole map from the opposing player if you do one, thing wrong. Why am I punished for my opponent choosing the Partisan doc? Why is my opponent not punished? The only change they seem to get is slow cap rates on their base units but when the SMG troops can fight me off of every point, giving those partisans LMG’s is easy as can be.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Lüng.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Lüng.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Lüng.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Lüng.
    • #12135
      Aydin
      Participant

      I have to admit, I struggle a lot too. The 222, flak half track and Panzer 2 are definitely your best bet. Personally, I still find them a bit weak though.

      PTRS volley fire beats the first two pretty quick. It works less well vs the Panzer II, but it’s still weak. The hart part is that multiple squads have AT grenades. So they can sneak up on you, kill the tank and continue.

      Granted, that’s exacerbated on urban maps. Also I am not good about clicking inf awareness. So I know I can be doing better too. But these vehicles are definitely still exposed to Partisans, it’s not an easy switch.

      You’ve also likely lost ground by this point, so micro and luck with your light vehicle lead counter attack is huge.

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